Blind Battle - AT suited in BB vs SB raiser

[Jack Daniels]

Okay, we always analyze hands from our own perspective, so I thought I'd try something a little different this time. I'm actually doing it this way as I'm looking for some various insights as to what you're seeing and how you'd play this as the villian. For that reason, I'm going to take this step by step as the hand played out. I think the first step is obv, but I'd like to hear thoughts anyway (even if it is just a couple). I'm off to bed shortly so I'll post the next piece later.

So, here we go...and remember, everything you see is from the villian's viewpoint, not mine.

I don't have PT stats on me to tell you, but if he's been paying attention so far, then he knows I've only shown down 1 or 2 hands so far and had the goods each time.

pokerstars $10.00+$1.00 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT
LEVEL II (15/30) - 2007/05/27 - 23:40:02 (ET)
9-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 1: mlsfitz (1285 in chips)
Seat 2: Bolts&Nuts (1020 in chips)
Seat 3: kkilson (1375 in chips)
Seat 4: JD Old Num 7 (2650 in chips)
Seat 5: MAAS-EMT (1285 in chips)
Seat 6: dekko (680 in chips)
Seat 7: Kingkeece (1990 in chips)
Seat 8: bigtimeitpro (1840 in chips)
Seat 9: dales045 (1375 in chips)
JD Old Num 7: posts small blind 15
MAAS-EMT: posts big blind 30

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MAAS-EMT [Ad Td]
dekko: folds
Kingkeece: folds
bigtimeitpro: folds
dales045: folds
mlsfitz: folds
Bolts&Nuts: folds
kkilson: folds
JD Old Num 7: raises 90 to 120
MAAS-EMT: ???

 

[jayneseo]

ARRRRRRRIIIIINNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mischman]

ARRRRRRRIIIIINNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^This.

A10S agaisnt the big stack raise from the SB. Rather just push in here and take the pot down or gamble with seeing all 5 cards. Dont want to play it post flop where im going to miss most of the time and your going to bet most of the time. I want the pot here.

 

[ChuckTs]

Disagree with misch; we don't have to get involved here. Blinds are low, no desperate need to protect them yet, and we have a marginal hand vs a tight player's raise.

He could of course be stealing, but generally tight players aren't on the prowl for a steal this early when the blinds aren't worth monkey poop. If we're sitting on the same stacks at say 50/100, well then I'll make a move. I might consider a call here if villain is weak enough to stack me with a weak overpair or TPTK, because my implied odds will be so big. Generally, though, I'm just tossing this.

 

[mischman]

Chuck, i deleted my post and made a new one. I mis read HH as this is blind vs blind.

Good to see you agree with what i thought was wrong

Edit: i shouldnt of made this post and then you just would of looked like an idiot, prbly would of been funny

 

[ChuckTs]

k post edited

 

[mischman]

The guy calls, it was wrong, give us the flop JD.

 

[Jack Daniels]

The guy calls, it was wrong, give us the flop JD.

LOL...go figure he called. It would have been a short HA if he folded, eh?

Since I'm still up and didn't expect responses so quick, here you go...

POKERSTARS $10.00+$1.00 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT
LEVEL II (15/30) - 2007/05/27 - 23:40:02 (ET)
9-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 1: mlsfitz (1285 in chips)
Seat 2: Bolts&Nuts (1020 in chips)
Seat 3: kkilson (1375 in chips)
Seat 4: JD Old Num 7 (2650 in chips)
Seat 5: MAAS-EMT (1285 in chips)
Seat 6: dekko (680 in chips)
Seat 7: Kingkeece (1990 in chips)
Seat 8: bigtimeitpro (1840 in chips)
Seat 9: dales045 (1375 in chips)
JD Old Num 7: posts small blind 15
MAAS-EMT: posts big blind 30

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MAAS-EMT [Ad Td]
dekko: folds
Kingkeece: folds
bigtimeitpro: folds
dales045: folds
mlsfitz: folds
Bolts&Nuts: folds
kkilson: folds
JD Old Num 7: raises 90 to 120
MAAS-EMT: calls 90

*** FLOP *** [Ts 3h 3d]
JD Old Num 7: checks
MAAS-EMT: ???

BTW, do you want me to repost the first parts of the hand each time or just the next step?

 

[jayneseo]

ARRRRIIINNNNN!!!!!!!!!

 

[mischman]

ARRRRIIINNNNN!!!!!!!!!

^^^This.

Thats why you should of pushed preflop. Shove here.

A) He folds preflop we take pot, pat yourself on back.
B) He calls and we hit a flop where odds are we are way ahead(maybe way behind if he snuck a 3 but what are the odds?) We shove here and the donk might call with PP. I dont think he has an over pair, would of bet flop. I just push and hope for a call. Dont want to get fancy and risk a JQK or any scare cards peeling off.

 

[jayneseo]

I've played against that JD and he is a donk that would've raised preflop with 33

 

[ChuckTs]

Well we should be tossing out a feeler bet here, see where we're at. Great flop for us. I do find villain's check weird though. He's TAG, would probably c-bet here as this is a good a flop as any. I'm predicting a check-raise here

Then again I'm really baked right now, and could be getting ahead of myself there...

 

[joeeagles]

Should've folded PF, but now its reasonable for him to think he's ahead. 3/4 or pot size bet sounds good.

 

[mischman]

Then again I'm really baked right now, and could be getting ahead of myself there...

[sarcasm]Way to make an excuse in advance incase your wrong or get into a debate. <- Like the controversioal(sp?) smile?[/sarcasm]


[serious]JD's a wuss, he disabled his sharkscope stats.[/serious]

 

[ChuckTs]

I'm too tired to get into it with you misch.

I stand by what I said


:stoned:

 

[jayneseo]

Well we should be tossing out a feeler bet here, see where we're at. Great flop for us. I do find villain's check weird though. He's TAG, would probably c-bet here as this is a good a flop as any. I'm predicting a check-raise here

Then again I'm really baked right now, and could be getting ahead of myself there...

If he check raises do you believe him or figure you were just trying to take the pot down so he reraises you?? ARRRIIIINNN!!!!!

 

[mischman]

I dont see how this is a hard hand to play.

Although there was 2 completly different paths to play it, once you chose one path, its quite easy.
A) Shove Preflop, Hand is over if he calls or folds.
B) Fold, Hand is over.

C) which is the worst, calling, has turned into an easy move. You bet the flop, he folds(hand is over) or raise in which case im more than happy to put all my chips in the middle with this hand agaisnt SB.

There is the option you bet a few hundred and he calls. I dont think this will happen a lot and this is why i just shove to eliminate the turn with a scare card. If turn comes a blank, all my chips are in middle either way.


^^^That would also be a boring HH and an easy one.

So....He bets ~200, you calls, turn comes a scare...now what is next part JD?

 

[joeeagles]

So....you bet ~200, he calls, turn comes a scare...now what is next part JD?

You're in such a rush. I hope (for their sake) you're not the same with your women.

 

[Jack Daniels]

[serious]JD's a wuss, he disabled his sharkscope stats.[/serious]

See, this is exactly why I disable things like sharkscope stats. Poker is partially about exploiting edges. Some people are so dependent on sharkscope info (though I find it somewhat inaccurate, tbh), that by disabling stats is both taking away a tool they want to use an exploiting that as and edge.

But obv I'm both a donk and wuss as well, we all know that. Duh.

Anyway,

now what is next part JD?

Seat 1: mlsfitz (1285 in chips)
Seat 2: Bolts&Nuts (1020 in chips)
Seat 3: kkilson (1375 in chips)
Seat 4: JD Old Num 7 (2650 in chips)
Seat 5: MAAS-EMT (1285 in chips)
Seat 6: dekko (680 in chips)
Seat 7: Kingkeece (1990 in chips)
Seat 8: bigtimeitpro (1840 in chips)
Seat 9: dales045 (1375 in chips)
JD Old Num 7: posts small blind 15
MAAS-EMT: posts big blind 30

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MAAS-EMT [Ad Td]
dekko: folds
Kingkeece: folds
bigtimeitpro: folds
dales045: folds
mlsfitz: folds
Bolts&Nuts: folds
kkilson: folds
JD Old Num 7: raises 90 to 120
MAAS-EMT: calls 90

*** FLOP *** [Ts 3h 3d]
JD Old Num 7: checks
MAAS-EMT: bets 90
JD Old Num 7: calls 90

*** TURN *** [Ts 3h 3d] 7♣
JD Old Num 7: checks
MAAS-EMT: ???

 

[mischman]

Hey........i was right he bet the turn and you called! \0/

I shove here again.

 

[joeeagles]

I don't like his flop bet (90 into a 240 pot, too small). With the 7 coming on the turn you have to think you're still ahead, with a small chance SB is slowplaying a monster PP. Pot is now 420. You need a nice size bet here and reevaluate based on SB action after that. I'd bet around 300, at least. If SB calls the 300, I'd be happy to just check it down on the river whatever card it is, unless its another T.

 

[bocasas]

i agree with joeeagles. pre flop i would have raised and in case he raised again it's over for me.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Seat 1: mlsfitz (1285 in chips)
Seat 2: Bolts&Nuts (1020 in chips)
Seat 3: kkilson (1375 in chips)
Seat 4: JD Old Num 7 (2650 in chips)
Seat 5: MAAS-EMT (1285 in chips)
Seat 6: dekko (680 in chips)
Seat 7: Kingkeece (1990 in chips)
Seat 8: bigtimeitpro (1840 in chips)
Seat 9: dales045 (1375 in chips)
JD Old Num 7: posts small blind 15
MAAS-EMT: posts big blind 30

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MAAS-EMT [Ad Td]
dekko: folds
Kingkeece: folds
bigtimeitpro: folds
dales045: folds
mlsfitz: folds
Bolts&Nuts: folds
kkilson: folds
JD Old Num 7: raises 90 to 120
MAAS-EMT: calls 90

*** FLOP *** [Ts 3h 3d]
JD Old Num 7: checks
MAAS-EMT: bets 90
JD Old Num 7: calls 90

*** TURN *** [Ts 3h 3d] 7♣
JD Old Num 7: checks
MAAS-EMT: bets 150
JD Old Num 7: raises 300 to 450
MAAS-EMT: ???

(Reminder: the reason I'm not responding to any of this is I'm interested in hearing the various thought processes on this hand. I also have some questions for afterwards.)

 

[joeeagles]

So now it either a bluff or a slowplayed pocket overpair now making his move. The combination of BB being tight, the check/call on the flop (no c-bet), the check/raise turn and having shown the goods at every showdown makes me think the latter. Since it folded to SB, its more likely not AA, KK (BB would probably limp those), it feels more like JJ or QQ at most. You can't be sure it's not a well timed and executed bluff but if it looks like one and smells like one, it probably is. I fold.

 

[Effexor]

My 2c.

It's too early to go wild defending blinds and making plays by going all in PF. I'd still reraise PF though. By just calling the SB could have any random hand.

The bet on the flop was WAY too small. Still no good info on SB's hand.

Now you're faced with a reraise after playing weakly. Close your eyes, go all in and pray.