Big Slick from the Big Blind

Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
Ok, you asked for this. More hand histories for analysis you said. :rolleyes:

This was an interesting one.

The very first hand of a STT at bodog. I have player notes on a couple of these guys, having met them before, but as it happens they are among those who fold pre-flop. So, no reads of any kind on the guys actually in the hand.

Game Type Hold'Em
Play Mode Real
Structure NL

Wocket 1 $1,000.00
SmokinChip80 2 $1,000.00
dskaterone 3 $1,000.00
Jorgji 4 $1,000.00
justin foreal 5 $1,000.00
Chitown Chef 6 $1,000.00
EgonTowst 7 $1,000.00
pikks 8 $1,000.00
Andyman12k 9 $1,000.00
donkiman 10 $1,000.00

Hand Actions
justin foreal Set dealer/Bring in spot 5
Chitown Chef Small blind $ 5.00
EgonTowst Big blind $ 10.00

EgonTowst Card dealt Ah Ks

pikks Raise $ 50.00
Andyman12k Fold
donkiman Fold
Wocket Fold
SmokinChip80 Call $ 50.00
dskaterone Fold
Jorgji Call $ 50.00
justin foreal Fold
Chitown Chef Fold

So, it`s round to you. Fold, Call, Reraise ?? Which would be your choice, and why ?
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
I would reraise. Granted, UTG raise is a bit suspicious but you have no reads and it's the first hand. A,K is a hand you raise with, not to call with. By raising, it will do one of two things. It might get one or both callers out of the hand and it will give you more information on where the othe rplayers stand as far as their hole cards are concerned.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
A big raise like that generally means a big hand. Maybe a big pair (and you know they %100 won't fold JJ+ preflop); though at the lower buyins it could mean QT - who knows :p.

What buyin is this?

I personally reraise up to about 300.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
AK out of position is overrated. I call and see a flop before committing a third of my stack. I might re-raise from the button but not the big blind. Plus it's the first hand, and you don't really want to see the original raiser pushing.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Call. Wait for flop and see what happens. That's a 5x BB raise on the table already.
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
What buyin is this?


Sorry :eek:

Its a 5$ SNG. Should have said. Bodog hand histories are in a slightly odd format, a kind of dump of the server`s memory, full of time tags and other unnecessary bits. I had to edit all the garbage out, and I edited out the tourney description.

Tough decision, isn`t it ? So far we have two guys who would call and two who would reraise. Any more ?
 
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S

SkipMasterSil

Rising Star
Big Slicker on the big blind.

Ahhh You have big slick on your big blind...What to do what to do. First of all if i was playing with people i didn't know then this is what i would do. I would wait for the betting to go around. If theres calls with no raises i would raise about $10-15 in a 1 / 2 game. This should knock out smart people that tried to limp in with balls. (but then again smart people wouldnt be playing balls) So watch out for the low pockets.
You basically want like only 1 to 2 callers. If you hit a pair, I suggest you fire away so they dont get free looks with shit. If the flop is K 7 8. Then bet like 10-15. Then you should figure out the rest.


Skip Master Flex.:)
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Tough decision, isn`t it ? So far we have two guys who would call and two who would reraise. Any more ?

It is a toughy. I'm thinking twice about reraising; as Bombjack mentioned you will be out of position post-flop which has a huge effect on what your decision should be. I didn't think of this the first time 'round.

I won't argue with smooth-calling and betting any hit flop hard, but you're also letting in two really crappy hands (I'm assuming as this is a $5) see a flop when I'm sure you're ahead of the two cold-callers. You'll also get fold equity if you're reraising vs any other unpaired hand on the flop.

So it's either a 40 chip decision to see a flop with AK, or basically getting a huge portion of your stack in on the first hand with it....I think I'm leaning more towards calling and seeing a flop, but I know I probably push this hard in the heat of the moment. Possibly a(nother) leak of mine.....
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
No more offers ?

Ok. We`re not done yet. It gets better. :)

I decided (a bit reluctantly) to flat-call. I would really like to bump it up and thin the field. 3 opponents is too many for comfort when holding AK.

Still, I`m concerned about Pikks. He may be a donk, I have no way of knowing. But, if he can play the game, 5 BBs from UTG must mean a big hand. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I`m not going to win the tourney on the first hand, but I could lose it, so no rash plays.



EgonTowst Call $ 40.00

Betting round completed Last active pot = $205.00

Card dealt to table 10h Jh As




Well now. That`s an interesting flop. :cool:

You`re first to act. Check or raise ? Which would you choose, and why ?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
egh bad flop :(

We would much rather see A74 or something like it...this flop's very draw heavy, and you may well be behind already to JT, AJ, KQ etc etc. But let's not give too much credit to these monkeyfish - afterall this is a $5 and people would risk an arm and a leg just to see a flop with 67s :)

I lead out with an info bet for about 2/3 the pot and see what kind of action you get. If you get raised big then you might have to consider just dumping the hand.
 
O

OneMoreBust

Rock Star
Responding to the first post.

Im going back and forth. First hand in a tourney when people are showing strength.... I don't think they will fold to a $100 raise, at least not more than 1 of them ,2 if you are lucky.Call and see the flop. Why put money into a pot if you arent sure you are ahead, and arent sure they will fold?

Responding to flop.

You are kinda screwed here, what do you put them on? 10 10 ? J J ? KQ ? AJ? A10? I would say you HAVE To raise here to force out the flush draw, but in all reality, look at those 3 guys. They ARE going to raise the pot, they won't simply let it check around. Check and then make your decision.

If multiple people start pushing hard, IMO it is an easy fold. It is a SNG, your job isnt to win every pot, or to never fold a winning hand. It is to grow your stack slow, safe, steady, and be in a good position when it gets down near the bubble. Aggressive blind play with people you dont know is just not worth the risk. you said you recognize some names... if pressure comes, fold and make money off those , and learn what you can.

$50 out of $1000 is not a big deal, especially when $10 was already committed.

Everyone, take a note and record, I just gave tight/weak advice, and that is something I will almost never advocate :) But there are definitely times to fold when you have little information. Normally I would say raise hard early position, but at this point I dont trust the donk bluffers :). I put them on a hand that could beat me preflop, now the right cards have come, and I have to let it go to strength (real or bluffed).

It is also the beginning of a $5 SNG, look for someone to donk out, and that is tricky to call when you dont have the nuts.

BTW. I think one of them has AA :)
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Well, there are lots of hands that beat you - AA, JJ, TT, KQ, AJ, AT, JT, all possible hands. In fact there's not much that you do beat - pocket pairs 99 and lower, KK, QQ, AQ, QJ, KJ are the only credible hands really. I'd bung out a feeler bet of 120 and see what happens. If someone raises, fold. If there are any callers, check the turn unless it's a Queen.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
I would just call preflop and make a feeler bet post flop just to see where I stand, and if I get a re-raise I would fold.
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

Rock Star
For the first part - I'd call.

2nd part - This is a toughie. Top pair, top kicker? 1/2 pot bet to try and chuck out the draws. Problem is that there could be a set lurking, or a two pair. Plus donks playing 77, JQ etc. I figure those guys wouldn't come over the top though, so if there's a big reraise, I'd fold. A couple of calls, and the question marks remain...
 
BalooLiz

BalooLiz

Rising Star
hi, in response to the first question, i would call the raise and wait to see what the flop brings.
In response to the flop i would raise 2/3 of the pot to see where the others stand. If there is a reraise, i would get out of the hand.
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
Third instalment

When that flop first fell, for about two seconds I thought, "Top Pair Top Kicker." :)

Then I looked again and realised there was about 19 ways I could be beat. :(

I decided to just check and see what happens. I have a feeling it`s getting near time to lay this one down.



EgonTowst Check
pikks Bet $ 30.00
SmokinChip80 Call $ 30.00
Jorgji Call $ 30.00


and back to you again.

WTF is going on here, I thought ? Pikks` bet looks like he wants to be called and, sure enough, the other two called smooth as clockwork. They are looking like donks.

I`ve got a read of sorts now. Pikks took exactly half of his time allowance both times he`s acted so far. Could be a coincidence, but I suspect it means he`s in the habit of purposely taking the same time every betting round, so that nobody can learn anything from his thinking time. That would mean he`s an experienced player.

Couple that with his pre-flop bet, and he likely has a tasty pocket pair,
TT, JJ, maybe even AA.

But then, why not bet bigger this round ? If he`s hit his set, surely he`d want to make life hard for anybody drawing to the flush or straight ?

I dunno, I`m lost. :(

What do you guys think ? What would you do now ?
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Well it's so cheap, you might as well call and hope to hit a queen on the turn. Your hand might even be good. I'd read his bet as "I've missed the flop completely with QQ / KK" rather than for a strong hand, on such a drawy board.

OR you could put in a raise. He may well be thinking what you're thinking, with AK or AQ. The cold-callers are looking pretty weak so I wouldn't worry too much about them, unless one is slow-playing KQ.

Actually the more I think about it, the more I like the raise. You don't have a strong drawing hand, and you don't want to let others draw out on you. You're out of position but you've got yourself position on this round by checking. Raise something like 3/4 pot and you'll soon find out if you're behind.
 
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BalooLiz

BalooLiz

Rising Star
i would definetly put in a reraise here,as im sure one of them would have re raised if they had hit something big on the flop, and hopefuuly the hands that are possibly drawing will fold.
 
KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

Legend
yeah thanks for invite egon. ur right, if it aint got 84os in it, i dont care.



tea, liz?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Ante up!
These guys are showing little to no strength, and you've still got a decent holding. You also have outs in case you're already beat. I think we're giving these guys way too much credit, and you need to stick in a raise here and see what happens.

I also like leading out rather than checking - what info have you really gotten from checking? I'm pretty clueless as to wtf everyone's holding, but it's safe to say that they're either really weak, or that pikk is playing a big hand like a donkey.
 
D

dsm420

Guest
1st?
I would call here, you're OOP against a UTG raise to 5BB. raising puts too much of your stack at risk without a made hand and you would have to fold to a reraise
2nd?
bet about half the pot, you need to obtain some information here and might push out the draws. it is a dangerous flop and you can fold to a reraise with most of your stack intact.
3rd
now you haven't a clue what anybody has but it's cheap and pot odds are decent I would call. raising may be what somebody wants you to do so don't. the problem with calling is you can only bet if you hit the queen.
 
KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

Legend
1st?
I would call here, you're OOP against a UTG raise to 5BB. raising puts too much of your stack at risk without a made hand and you would have to fold to a reraise
2nd?
bet about half the pot, you need to obtain some information here and might push out the draws. it is a dangerous flop and you can fold to a reraise with most of your stack intact.
3rd
now you haven't a clue what anybody has but it's cheap and pot odds are decent I would call. raising may be what somebody wants you to do so don't. the problem with calling is you can only bet if you hit the queen.
nice reply bud.
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
Fourth Instalment

I`m going to have to disappoint (again) those of you who advocate aggressive action here.

OneMoreBust said:

It is a SNG, your job isnt to win every pot, or to never fold a winning hand. It is to grow your stack slow, safe, steady, and be in a good position when it gets down near the bubble.

Which exactly sums up my own approach to the early levels of a SNG. Nice post, Busty. :)

And then he went on to say:

Everyone, take a note and record, I just gave tight/weak advice, and that is something I will almost never advocate

And I understand that thought, too. It`s a basic assumption among competent NLHE players that might is right and aggressive wins. It`s so much part of our frame of reference that we feel bound to apologise if we don`t always follow that map.

Know what ? I reckon that`s a leak. :eek:

For sure, there`s a time to be an Eagle, but I think there is a right time to be a Rock, too.

Anyway, enough philosophy, back to the specific. I decided to flat-call, very much thinking along the lines suggested by Dsm420.

Look at the next card. If I were one of those (I`m not) who think online poker is rigged, I`d be sure about now that Bodog are joking around and the joke`s on me.



EgonTowst Call $ 30.00

Betting round completed Last active pot = $325.00

Card dealt to table Kc



Hey, Top Two Pair. That`s good, no ?? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Once again, guys and gals. Last time (I promise), what you gonna do ?
 
KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

Legend
ok egon, just sum up where we are right now, with callers, board, and people left in. i didnt wanna get involved cause liz was, but she's alseep now, i'll give it a go.
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
Here you go, KD:

You`re in the big blind, holding Ah Ks. It`s the very first hand of a SNG and you don`t know the other players.

It`s the turn, and the board is 10h Jh As Kc.

Stacks were $1000 at the start, BB is $10. There are three other guys in the pot. As far as you can tell on the limited information you have from just half a hand, the player immediately to your left might be sound, the other two look like beginners.

The pot is $325 and it`s you to act first.

And if you have the patience to read the whole thread, you should. There`s some good thinking from the guys here, including from Liz. :)
 
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