Steveg1976
...
Silver Level
If you really can't find someone who disgrees with your play either the aren't your friends or are so cowardly they won't express a dissenting opinion. that must be some fun poker conversations if no one ever disagrees.
G
glworden
Visionary
Silver Level
I really got a lot out of this thread. It really reveals that although there are different ways to see a hand, not all approaches are equally valid. It's easy to get lost in the bluster of the strong opinion; doing so blinds one to the nuts and bolts of quality analysis.
Not all opinions are equal, and an opinion does not gain validity if its merely restated with more bluster and rancor.
It's OK to be wrong and it's OK to make mistakes, but we can't learn if we're ego-blinded and unable to re-examine our own positions dispassionately.
Wading through this thread has helped train me to recognize qualitative differences in approaches to hand analysis.
I thank you all.
Gary
P. S. - As I grow in this forum, I'm learning that some of your names have earned my respect and attention. It's odd to see those people maligned.
Not all opinions are equal, and an opinion does not gain validity if its merely restated with more bluster and rancor.
It's OK to be wrong and it's OK to make mistakes, but we can't learn if we're ego-blinded and unable to re-examine our own positions dispassionately.
Wading through this thread has helped train me to recognize qualitative differences in approaches to hand analysis.
I thank you all.
Gary
P. S. - As I grow in this forum, I'm learning that some of your names have earned my respect and attention. It's odd to see those people maligned.
G
glworden
Visionary
Silver Level
Adhering to idioms . . .
Don't live by idioms. That's been ingrained in me too, always recalling Doyle's admonition not to chase flushes and straights. But it's an over-simplified slogan that does not recognize the complexity of the game. It's fine with me if you and pOK live by the idiom, because we need opponents with those kinds of holes in their games. pOK seems to offend a lot of people and he's constantly berating the "flushers." Fine. Never chase a flush.
Ignore the reality of odds and pot odds, and ignore the fact that there are even times when your trailing hand is favored to win by the river.
It's not my intent to insult or berate you. I'm trying to be helpful. If analytical evidence supports a flush or straight draw, it's simply the correct move in spite of any idioms, slogans or "gut feelings." Simple facts.
Gary the Worden
Don't live by idioms. That's been ingrained in me too, always recalling Doyle's admonition not to chase flushes and straights. But it's an over-simplified slogan that does not recognize the complexity of the game. It's fine with me if you and pOK live by the idiom, because we need opponents with those kinds of holes in their games. pOK seems to offend a lot of people and he's constantly berating the "flushers." Fine. Never chase a flush.
Ignore the reality of odds and pot odds, and ignore the fact that there are even times when your trailing hand is favored to win by the river.
It's not my intent to insult or berate you. I'm trying to be helpful. If analytical evidence supports a flush or straight draw, it's simply the correct move in spite of any idioms, slogans or "gut feelings." Simple facts.
Gary the Worden
G
glworden
Visionary
Silver Level
I found it because I'd read some pretty remarkable recent posts by pOK and I checked out his post history to see whether his recent posts were typical. They are. I'd like to welcome him into the family of useful posters. He starts most responses with an insult, then even when there's overwhelming evidence that his position is simply wrong, becomes more entrenched and slips in a couple more insults. I'm worried about him. He's missing out on some opportunities to improve his game. Lots of good wisdom out there, but if you're closed to it - it does you no good. I'm sincerely not antagonistic at all. I'm a peacemaker and would just like to open his eyes. But I imagine he'll have a juicy insult for me and tell me it's none of my business - and he's right. Play the game anyway you want to. And of course, I want there to be people out there falling on their petards.
Y
ysmisc
Rock Star
Silver Level
You are both wrong and right at the same timeDon't live by idioms. That's been ingrained in me too, always recalling Doyle's admonition not to chase flushes and straights. But it's an over-simplified slogan that does not recognize the complexity of the game. It's fine with me if you and pOK live by the idiom, because we need opponents with those kinds of holes in their games. pOK seems to offend a lot of people and he's constantly berating the "flushers." Fine. Never chase a flush.
Ignore the reality of odds and pot odds, and ignore the fact that there are even times when your trailing hand is favored to win by the river.
It's not my intent to insult or berate you. I'm trying to be helpful. If analytical evidence supports a flush or straight draw, it's simply the correct move in spite of any idioms, slogans or "gut feelings." Simple facts.
Gary the Worden
My point is that in MOST cases chasing a flash is ANALYTICALLY the wrong thing to do! That is why it is a rule of thumb not to chase it.
However, if you analyze the hand and think you have statistically a good chance against the opponent then you WILL chase the flash.
These simple rules are rule of thumb - Easy to remember and get you out of trouble but should not be adhered to at all times.
Like I said you are both wrong and right - Poker...
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
archived as testament to pokthingy's hilariousness