Bad call?

shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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Based on the size of villians pre-flop bet, was I in the wrong?. DaBearMan called me a donkey for sucking out on the river(I agree with sucking out) and villian asked later why I pushed all-in and I told him my reasoning for the all-in.
Early stages in low buy-in MTT, and his 3xBB did not indicate aces to me and he then asked if I mix up my game a bit and I told him no, not this early in an MTT


pokerstars Game #10827022036: Tournament #54105528, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/07/08 - 04:33:23 (ET)
Table '54105528 48' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: DaBearMan (3955 in chips)
Seat 2: Orion469 (2040 in chips)
Seat 3: RealToby (910 in chips)
Seat 4: I North Star (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: Peekiboo81 (1310 in chips)
Seat 6: Pulle121183 (6530 in chips)
Seat 7: Bad67 (8595 in chips)
Seat 8: spudgunner (2630 in chips)
Seat 9: Backe05 (2580 in chips)
RealToby: posts small blind 25
I North Star: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Orion469 [Qs Kd]
Peekiboo81: folds
Pulle121183: folds
Bad67: folds
spudgunner: raises 100 to 150
Backe05: folds
DaBearMan: calls 150
Orion469: calls 150-(based on the size of villians bet, was this the right call, try not to be results oriented)
RealToby: folds
I North Star: folds
*** FLOP *** [3h Qc Ts]
spudgunner: bets 200
DaBearMan: folds
Orion469: raises 200 to 400
spudgunner: calls 200
*** TURN *** [3h Qc Ts] [2s]
spudgunner: checks
Orion469: bets 1490 and is all-in
spudgunner: calls 1490
*** RIVER *** [3h Qc Ts 2s] [Qd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
spudgunner: shows [Ah As] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
Orion469: shows [Qs Kd] (three of a kind, Queens)
Orion469 collected 4305 from pot
DaBearMan said, "lol"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4305 | Rake 0
Board [3h Qc Ts 2s Qd]
Seat 1: DaBearMan folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Orion469 (button) showed [Qs Kd] and won (4305) with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 3: RealToby (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: I North Star (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Peekiboo81 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Pulle121183 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Bad67 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: spudgunner showed [Ah As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 9: Backe05 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
belladonna05

belladonna05

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I don't think it was a bad call...he way underplayed his aces, I wouldnt have put him on them. He tried to trap you, thought he had and you rivered him, his bad luck your good fortune.
 
S

Sphinx

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The pre-flop call was right. The bet was little and you did the right thing to call. The flop was perfect for you. Pair of Q's K kicker. No straights or flushes. so only 3 things that could beat you. So a good call on the flop. About the push... It was a bit rushed, maybe you should have wait to see the card on the river, but it worked out.
Nice hand.

Take care, S
 
B

buckit0

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I think the all-in was a bit much, seem's like you played into his trap and got lucky. I don't think he underplayed his aces either, probably he put u on something like k-q or a-q. But either way you won so it all worked out in the end :)
 
M

Mecastyles

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This was a really bad play. He didnt underplay his aces cause he had trapped you with top pair second kicker. He was in a perfect shape untill you gave him a suckout..

To avoid this i would fold KQ preflop in early stages of MTT's
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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I think the all-in was a bit much, seem's like you played into his trap and got lucky. I don't think he underplayed his aces either, probably he put u on something like k-q or a-q. But either way you won so it all worked out in the end :)
I believe he did underplay his aces, if he head made a standard bet of 5-6xBB I would have definately folded my KQ and wouldn't have sucked out like I did.
TBH buckit0, if you play AA the way villian does, they'll get cracked often by a hand that should have been forced to fold by the proper bet preflop.
 
M

Mecastyles

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Lol, why should he let you push out the pot. His bets were perfect and he sucked you right in it.
 
M

MadRiver

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He played the hand right I agree, he had you right where he wanted you you just got lucky.
 
rob5775

rob5775

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I believe he did underplay his aces, if he head made a standard bet of 5-6xBB I would have definately folded my KQ and wouldn't have sucked out like I did.
TBH buckit0, if you play AA the way villian does, they'll get cracked often by a hand that should have been forced to fold by the proper bet preflop.


Do you mean you raise every hand 5-6xbb, or just AA? He made a 3xbb raise, which is really a standard raise. I prefer a little bit bigger raise in the early stages of a MTT, but I don't believe he underplayed them preflop. It's not like he minraised them. You do want some action with AA, so why make a huge raise?

And to answer your question, you had the chips and it was early in the tourney... so I don't think your call was bad. But call realizing that in this situation you are still behind to AQ, AA, KK and QQ. But with position I don't mind this call preflop.
 
J

joeeagles

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Pf is fine, you have position so its ok to call the 150 with 2 players already in, nothing wrong with that. You raised his flop bet and that's fine too, try to find out where you are and you still have 1500 left.

Since he called your reraise on the turn you should slow down a bit since it didn't improve your hand, after all he did raise PF, lead out and called your reraise on the flop. It doesn't really make a difference anyway because the river will give you the best hand, only thing is villain might give you credit for a Q and fold his aces to your bet, which at that point might be a value bet and not an all-in.

Mecastles, I don't understand your argument here. You shouldn't play aces to trap opponents when pot went 3-way to the flop, or if you do you can't complain when someone outdraws you. On a QT3 rainbow flop you know you're likely ahead, so why smooth call his reraise on the flop? This is just an example of fancy play sindrome done with a good hand but not a monster one, and everytime you do that you run into this risk of getting outdrawn. I find it hilarious when people get upset because they slowplay aces and get them cracked. As played Shine sucked out because when chips went in he was behind, I'll give you that, but people need to stop thinking that just because they have aces they're entitled to win the hand so they slowplay them to "trap". Aces are the best hand PF, after that they become vulnerable, and even more so if you decide to slowplay them when they don't improve, worst yet in a 3-way pot. He sucked Shine in yes, but there is always a risk with that and you need to accept it if you're going to play them in this fashion.

You can disagree with this as much as you want.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Preflop is fine by me, although lately I've been folding KQo to raises just because I hate being caught by AK/AQ.

That's what I would have been afraid of on the turn; being behind to AQ since it's statistically more likely. He had a chance to reraise you on the flop or lead the turn, but it looks like what he was hoping for is what you did; get all the chips in yourself.
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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Flop play was the worst street: he bets 200 into a 550 pot and you min raise him. Make it 600ish, then his call or raise will actually give you some information as to where you stand on this very dry flop. Calling w KQ preflop is only bad if you are going to overplay it and lose all your money w tpgk. But if you are going to playing it, why not reraise? It's a nice squeeze play withe the other caller behind the original raiser.
 
Y

young hova

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I wouldn't make this call at these blinds too this raise with your stack right here, but since you did at least you had position so that gives you something.

Like alien said, I would 3 bet this raise at least because you don't really find out anything with a minimum raise on this flop. He might have put you on a queen, but he couldve also put you on straight draw too.

aside from that the only thing I really just don't think you should of did was go all in on the turn. I know your just trying to scoop the pot right here with that bet and thats understandable...when you know what the person has. Just because you raised his bet on the flop and he calls doesn't always mean they are weak, and its hard to know sometimes this early in tournaments whose going to play you deceptively so I think its best to slow down.

On the turn he checks, in all reality since you minimum raised his flop bet and really didn't get any information I would check right behind him to control the size of the pot. Judging by his flop bet, I would assume that you wouldn't have to be calling an outrageous bet on the river if the queen doesn't come anyway. This way you minimize losses, and you get to determine what size of bet you want to call, because if he does make an outrageous bet you could consider folding depending his image. See, you know where you stand but you have no clue where he stands, even if you thought the preflop bet was weak, he doesn't have to have aces, if you can't put them on a sometype of hand post flop, slow down with position your hand isn't going anywhere.
 
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