AQo, button, raise 5BB after 4 limpers, continuation bet on dud flop/turn

[pat3392]

P$1.00+$0.10 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) MTT

' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Sargent_Pain (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: not0815 (1400 in chips)
Seat 3: thechap88 (1320 in chips)
Seat 4: Maxwell Hall (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: onyourmark66 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: jackpezz (1880 in chips)
Seat 7: sarileiiii (1400 in chips)
Seat 8: estarbury (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: 77Neil (1500 in chips)
thechap88: posts small blind 10
Maxwell Hall: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Maxwell Hall [Ah Qs]
onyourmark66: folds
jackpezz: calls 20
sarileiiii: folds
estarbury: folds
77Neil: folds
Sargent_Pain: calls 20
not0815: calls 20
thechap88: calls 10
Maxwell Hall: raises 80 to 100
jackpezz: calls 80
Sargent_Pain: calls 80
not0815: folds
thechap88: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s 2s 7c]
Maxwell Hall: bets 220
jackpezz: folds
Sargent_Pain: calls 220
*** TURN *** [8s 2s 7c] [2d]
Maxwell Hall: bets 380
Sargent_Pain: raises 800 to 1180 and is all-in
Maxwell Hall: folds
Uncalled bet (800) returned to Sargent_Pain
Sargent_Pain collected 1540 from pot
Sargent_Pain: doesn't show hand



Did I make any bad plays here? These sort of raises seem to be getting me into a mess, and because of that I'm starting to limp hands like AQ/AK in early position/blinds, so basically adopting a more passive style with drawing hands. Suggestions?

 

[WiZZiM]

yes, pretty bad all around..

id prefer checking preflop, with so many callers, its unlikely you will get only one caller, so instead of inflating the pot, jsut check..

on the flop, the cbet, from the looks of it, is a little to big( could be wrong im tired and havent checked the pot size).

the turn bet is strange and really really bad. after the flop call it's time to give up, he's not folding to a second barrell very often, so it's just burning money..

heres how i play it.. check preflop, check flop/fold to bet, check turn/fold to bet

 

[pat3392]

yes, pretty bad all around..

id prefer checking preflop, with so many callers, its unlikely you will get only one caller, so instead of inflating the pot, jsut check..

on the flop, the cbet, from the looks of it, is a little to big( could be wrong im tired and havent checked the pot size).

the turn bet is strange and really really bad. after the flop call it's time to give up, he's not folding to a second barrell very often, so it's just burning money..

heres how i play it.. check preflop, check flop/fold to bet, check turn/fold to bet

c-bet on the flop is exactly 2/3rds pot; too much?

Hmm, I thought it was good to inflate the pot with strong hands such as AQ; should it only be done with non drawing hands? i.e JJ+

So, I should only really raise with drawing hands preflop if I suspect I can get heads up with an opponent?

The reason why I fired again on the turn is because about half of the players call a flop bet but fold to a turn bet; this may be a leak in my game but idk; perhaps I should just check the turn since I suspect they call my flop bet thinking I am bluffing; so, they want to see what I do on the turn, and since I raise again they give me credit for having the best hand and fold, meaning my A high might win at showdown anyway, assuming that don't suck out

 

[WiZZiM]

c-bet on the flop is exactly 2/3rds pot; too much? i didnt check the size of the pot, half to 2/3 is fine. however, with two players in the pot, im likely to not even cbet when there is more than one playerin the pot, especially if the board is like K910 or a board that is likely to hit ranges, this board, isnt too bad, so i dont mind firing one bet at it..

Hmm, I thought it was good to inflate the pot with strong hands such as AQ; should it only be done with non drawing hands? i.e JJ+
Problem is, your always going to get called, and always going to face tricky decisions postflop, when you've inflated the pot for those who have position.
So, I should only really raise with drawing hands preflop if I suspect I can get heads up with an opponent?
Early on, were still looking to be pretty conservative, AK i dont mind raising
The reason why I fired again on the turn is because about half of the players call a flop bet but fold to a turn bet; this may be a leak in my game but idk; perhaps I should just check the turn since I suspect they call my flop bet thinking I am bluffing; so, they want to see what I do on the turn, and since I raise again they give me credit for having the best hand and fold, meaning my A high might win at showdown anyway, assuming that don't suck outThese players are dollar sng players, they arnt thinking, at all, they look at their cards and hit a button, no thought process is involved in most cases.. so once your called on the flop, i cant think of many hands that fold to turn bets, maybe Ace rag's fold, but thats about it. you should have defo checkdd the turn, you made your play on the flop, anything more than that is costing yourself money.

..

 

[pat3392]

..

thanks for the great reply; does that mean I should limp hands like AQ early position? I've been folding AT lately from UTG; is this good?

 

[pat3392]

Oh, in case that looks like I was being sarcastic I wasn't...

 

[Jillychemung]

AQo is usually a fold for me early in SNGs up to the CO spot. This is definetly a check preflop and a check/fold on this board.

 

[WiZZiM]

Oh, in case that looks like I was being sarcastic I wasn't...

hahaha did a little...

A10 UTG is a fold, AQ, for me personally, i prefer to just limp with it from early positon, and raise with it from MP and late. ill rarely 3bet or raise with it from the blinds..

i dont want to just say you should always limp with AQ in early position. some players are more comfortable with folding it early on. if your comfortable playing postflop, then you can decide to limp or raise with it.. just note though, early on, your looking to conserve your chips, perhaps accumulate a few, but if your the type of player who limpes with AQ and procedes to stack off on a board of A K 10 with 2 spades, then its best to probably just fold them. Also if you start playing at higher stakes, or with players who you think are better than you, it's probably best to just fold. at the $1 tables, im fine with raising AQ from any position.

 

[pat3392]

hahaha did a little...

A10 UTG is a fold, AQ, for me personally, i prefer to just limp with it from early positon, and raise with it from MP and late. ill rarely 3bet or raise with it from the blinds..

i dont want to just say you should always limp with AQ in early position. some players are more comfortable with folding it early on. if your comfortable playing postflop, then you can decide to limp or raise with it.. just note though, early on, your looking to conserve your chips, perhaps accumulate a few, but if your the type of player who limpes with AQ and procedes to stack off on a board of A K 10 with 2 spades, then its best to probably just fold them. Also if you start playing at higher stakes, or with players who you think are better than you, it's probably best to just fold. at the $1 tables, im fine with raising AQ from any position.

Thanks for the informative reply

 

[tomh7795]

I think AQ is a fold utg. That's just what I feel about it. Check preflop and cf flop.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Typically in early levels you'd want to raise 3bb +1bb for each limper in ahead of you (pending reads... in higher buyins a limp from EP is often quite a strong hand). AND when you're out of position you'll want to add another bb (4bb +1bb). Problem with doing this in early levels of a micro buyin is...>> one guy calls... next guy calls... now the rest are priced in to call as well (they can't find the fold button).

In this hand when we whiff the flop, there's no sense in continuing with a cbet - - hands that have called you before the flop are likely to continue on a board like this as it's likely to hit one or more of their ranges (ie. LP players with SC's, or any of them with any pp's). Just give it up & move on.

As an alternative, in a super low buyin like this, I'll consider just checking behind... OR if I'm raising it up... I'm RAISING it up (taking it down preflop without resistance isn't a bad thing for you).

 

[pat3392]

Typically in early levels you'd want to raise 3bb +1bb for each limper in ahead of you (pending reads... in higher buyins a limp from EP is often quite a strong hand). AND when you're out of position you'll want to add another bb (4bb +1bb). Problem with doing this in early levels of a micro buyin is...>> one guy calls... next guy calls... now the rest are priced in to call as well (they can't find the fold button).

In this hand when we whiff the flop, there's no sense in continuing with a cbet - - hands that have called you before the flop are likely to continue on a board like this as it's likely to hit one or more of their ranges (ie. LP players with SC's, or any of them with any pp's). Just give it up & move on.

As an alternative, in a super low buyin like this, I'll consider just checking behind... OR if I'm raising it up... I'm RAISING it up (taking it down preflop without resistance isn't a bad thing for you).

I've been using the 3BB+1 formula for my raise but a few players have suggested that I use a 5BB+1 instead. I was going to try it out tonight but what do you guys think: is this formula more for players who can "find the fold button?" When you say raising it up would 5BB+1 be enough or do you mean much more? What do you do if you raise like 7BB and 2 opponents limp in, do you still do a c-bet?

 

[FTP_TheNuts]

Just slow down post flop, but you HAVE to raise pre flop. 5 x BB with this many limpers is good.

 

[Jillychemung]

Just slow down post flop, but you HAVE to raise pre flop. 5 x BB with this many limpers is good.

I really dislike a raise here. At this level he WILL NOT get heads up nor take it down preflop so a raise will only inflate a multiway pot and OP's OOP the rest of the hand.

 

[FTP_TheNuts]

I really dislike a raise here. At this level he WILL NOT get heads up nor take it down preflop so a raise will only inflate a multiway pot and OP's OOP the rest of the hand.

You want to inflate the pot obv, and get atleast one or two limpers out.

Folding AQ is ridiculously nitty and you need to open up your range a little imo.

Fwiw im a nitty player but im never open folding AQ, thats ridic.