anyone actully not like how I played this

stormswa

stormswa

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pokerstars Game #11297764737: Tournament #56614519, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/08/03 - 23:24:41 (ET)
Table '56614519 235' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Cripes (1905 in chips)
Seat 2: risa1965 (2850 in chips)
Seat 3: me (4665 in chips)
Seat 4: chessoldie (2995 in chips)
Seat 5: PatGoup (1980 in chips)
Seat 6: Duncanguy (2975 in chips)
Seat 7: awl65 (1910 in chips)
Seat 8: My bluf face (3150 in chips)
Seat 9: PUSKAS27 (1395 in chips) is sitting out
Duncanguy: posts small blind 15
awl65: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to me [Kh Kc]
My bluf face: calls 30
PUSKAS27: folds
Cripes: folds
risa1965: folds
me: raises 150 to 180
chessoldie: raises 150 to 330
PatGoup: folds
Duncanguy: folds
awl65: folds
My bluf face: folds
me: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [2d 6h 2s]
me: checks
chessoldie: bets 960
me: raises 3375 to 4335 and is all-in
chessoldie: calls 1705 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2d 6h 2s] [7h]
*** RIVER *** [2d 6h 2s 7h] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
me: shows [Kh Kc] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
chessoldie: shows [Qc Qd] (two pair, Queens and Deuces)
me collected 6065 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6065 | Rake 0
Board [2d 6h 2s 7h Ad]
Seat 1: Cripes folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: risa1965 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: me showed [Kh Kc] and won (6065) with two pair, Kings and Deuces
Seat 4: chessoldie showed [Qc Qd] and lost with two pair, Queens and Deuces
Seat 5: PatGoup (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Duncanguy (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: awl65 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: My bluf face folded before Flop
Seat 9: PUSKAS27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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No, but thanks for asking.

BTW, why did you change your name to "me" in the HH?
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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no idea what your talking about :cool:

Seat 3: me (4665 in chips)
Dealt to me [Kh Kc]
me: raises 150 to 180
me: calls 150
me: checks
me: raises 3375 to 4335 and is all-in
me: shows [Kh Kc] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
me collected 6065 from pot
Seat 3: me showed [Kh Kc] and won (6065) with two pair, Kings and Deuces
Oops, sorry for not being clear before. :)
 
stormswa

stormswa

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hey JD,


you know who we are just like, Daniel N. and Mike M. , but of course im clearly Daniel.
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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but of course im clearly Daniel.

You're an slighty over-rated, somewhat effeminate Canadian? And besides, I'm better looking than Mike M. But I get your analogy. :)
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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It's obviously not his HH. It's a PS HH from yesterday and Storm is self banned from there for like six more weeks. :eek:

Besides, you'd never find him in a $2.20 game. :)
 
A

alan1983

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Why the cold call preflop?

Planning to let it go if ace hits?
 
P

protoskull

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Why the cold call preflop?

Planning to let it go if ace hits?

Yeah, was thinking that too - I woulda reraised your villain hoping he came over the top.

If you had a read he had Aces ofc, then the cold call is right, but once the flop hits, if you dont have him on AA, then you just gave him a chance to get away, no?

I mean it's not like you made a bad play here but I would have played it very slightly differently.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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It worked but I would have just shoved pre-flop. No way villain gets away from QQ at these stakes.

Side question:

What do you do if the flop hits QJJ and villain open shoves?
 
stormswa

stormswa

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It worked but I would have just shoved pre-flop. No way villain gets away from QQ at these stakes.

Side question:

What do you do if the flop hits QJJ and villain open shoves?

fold,

the reason to play it like this is so you give villain a chance to overplay his hand.
 
A

alan1983

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I think he was ready to overplay it preflop. Once he reraised to 330, he wasnt gonna fold preflop imo.
 
M

Mvemjsunpx

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I think you should have re-raised pre-flop (not shoved; I hate disproportionate shoves).
KK is one of those hands that you want to get as many chips in pre-flop as you possibly can without being disproportionate.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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I think he was ready to overplay it preflop. Once he reraised to 330, he wasnt gonna fold preflop imo.

I think you should have re-raised pre-flop (not shoved; I hate disproportionate shoves).
KK is one of those hands that you want to get as many chips in pre-flop as you possibly can without being disproportionate.


I disagree, yes this guy would of most likely put it all in but I much rather play the hand postflop.
 
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Mvemjsunpx

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I disagree, yes this guy would of most likely put it all in but I much rather play the hand postflop.

OK, fair enough.

But, what would you have done if an Ace had flopped?
 
stormswa

stormswa

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OK, fair enough.

But, what would you have done if an Ace had flopped?

fold

why go bust making a hero call? I had only invested 330 out of a 4665 stack.

on the way the hand played he had to have a high pair or AK and maybe AQ suited so I knew if i hit a good flop like I did he would commit the rest of his chips. I dont see any reason to play this for stacks preflop at all, I might actully lose value from a smart player that can lay down a big pair. By playing it this way though im able to see the flop texture and "outplay" him on flop.
 
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Mvemjsunpx

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fold

why go bust making a hero call? I had only invested 330 out of a 4665 stack.

This kind of proves my point.
Why potentially put yourself in an awkward situation & fold w/ K's when you don't necessarily have to?
I think I remember Chris Ferguson saying something to the effect that he always tries to minimize the number of difficult decisions he has to make in a tournament. It doesn't get much more difficult than having KK & seeing an Ace flop w/ only 1 opponent (if there are many it's actually an easy fold).

on the way the hand played he had to have a high pair or AK and maybe AQ suited so I knew if i hit a good flop like I did he would commit the rest of his chips.
I could see why he would commit w/ an overpair (like he did), but why would he commit all his chips w/ AK or AQ on a 262 flop? He knows any pocket pair has him beat (or AK if he has AQ). He might have made a continuation bet, but he probably wouldn't have ended up all in.

I dont see any reason to play this for stacks preflop at all, I might actully lose value from a smart player that can lay down a big pair. By playing it this way though im able to see the flop texture and "outplay" him on flop.
Why not be willing to play for stacks preflop? It was early in the tournament, wasn't it? So why not try to go all in with an almost certainly dominant pre-flop hand? You'll still have an OK stack of 1670 if you lose. And, if you're a 70/30 favorite on average based on his likely range (you were actually an 80/20 favorite), you're EV is about +1250 (end up w/ about 5900) if you end up all-in. If you win, you'll have about 7650 chips, enough for long-term survivability, which is what you're looking for to at least make the money or hopefully go further (correct me if wrong on this point because I've never played a PokerStars tournament & I don't know how many were in the tourney so I don't exactly know what stack one would be looking for to at least make the money).

Now, you shouldn't shove right there after his raise to 330, of course. I probably would of made a value re-raise to 800 or so; an amount he probably couldn't fold. He'll almost certainly call or shove there. If he calls, you still see a flop, but with more chips in pre-flop as a likely heavy favorite. If he shoves, that's great unless he has AA, in which case you got coolered, but those things happen.

I don't think you played it badly & I don't think these 2 methods will result in much of a difference most of the time, but I think you're potentially throwing away a rare, super-premium hand by deliberately permitting the chance of a flopped Ace, causing you to fold unless you can push him off. You should try to extract as many chips as possible while you're confident you're the favorite. You did that on the flop, but you didn't pre-flop & left yourself open to being bluffed off the hand later.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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This kind of proves my point.
Why potentially put yourself in an awkward situation & fold w/ K's when you don't necessarily have to?
I think I remember Chris Ferguson saying something to the effect that he always tries to minimize the number of difficult decisions he has to make in a tournament. It doesn't get much more difficult than having KK & seeing an Ace flop w/ only 1 opponent (if there are many it's actually an easy fold)..

I dont see why we are in a difficult spot here? A JT2 is a difficult spot but a A22 flop is not difficult at all.


I could see why he would commit w/ an overpair (like he did), but why would he commit all his chips w/ AK or AQ on a 262 flop? He knows any pocket pair has him beat (or AK if he has AQ). He might have made a continuation bet, but he probably wouldn't have ended up all in..


why do you keep going back to playing for your whole stack? that is not our goal at this stage of the tourney. I want to give him a chance to bluff at it and to make C-bets. AK is going to C-bet this flop most of the time because like I said it is very dry.



Why not be willing to play for stacks preflop? It was early in the tournament, wasn't it? So why not try to go all in with an almost certainly dominant pre-flop hand? You'll still have an OK stack of 1670 if you lose. And, if you're a 70/30 favorite on average based on his likely range (you were actually an 80/20 favorite), you're EV is about +1250 (end up w/ about 5900) if you end up all-in. If you win, you'll have about 7650 chips, enough for long-term survivability, which is what you're looking for to at least make the money or hopefully go further (correct me if wrong on this point because I've never played a PokerStars tournament & I don't know how many were in the tourney so I don't exactly know what stack one would be looking for to at least make the money)..

I dont need to double up in 1st 2 hours in a tourney. Im very good at extracting max value from my opponents and that is the goal in this hand also. Without knowing he had QQ I want to try to get value from someone that is going to overplay their small pairs or TPTK.


Now, you shouldn't shove right there after his raise to 330, of course. I probably would of made a value re-raise to 800 or so; an amount he probably couldn't fold. He'll almost certainly call or shove there. If he calls, you still see a flop, but with more chips in pre-flop as a likely heavy favorite. If he shoves, that's great unless he has AA, in which case you got coolered, but those things happen..


think I have already answered this in last couple paragraphs.

I don't think you played it badly & I don't think these 2 methods will result in much of a difference most of the time, but I think you're potentially throwing away a rare, super-premium hand by deliberately permitting the chance of a flopped Ace, causing you to fold unless you can push him off. You should try to extract as many chips as possible while you're confident you're the favorite. You did that on the flop, but you didn't pre-flop & left yourself open to being bluffed off the hand later.

let me restate, I dont want to put my tourney life on the line until very deep in a tourney. In a big tourney which was this one in the case since it had like 1,500 players I want to pick up small pots and accumulate chips so that later on I can make calls where other people put their tourney life on the line and I can call of maybe 10-20% of my stack.

If a ace flops like Dan Harrington I believe put you just fold, If he wants to bluff a 600 chip pot with a ace out more power to him. Thanks for your input.
 
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