AK suited on the button...

AmadorEd

AmadorEd

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pokerstars Game #9575592725: Tournament #48602354, $1.50+$0.25 Hold'em No Limit
- Level II (15/30) - 2007/04/23 - 21:26:50 (ET)
Table '48602354 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: tiggs3257 (1690 in chips)
Seat 2: sask1st (1295 in chips)
Seat 3: aka-thegr8-1 (2790 in chips)
Seat 4: ironcub14 (3145 in chips)
Seat 5: SLUGSPIT (1375 in chips)
Seat 8: Amador Ed (1405 in chips)
Seat 9: 13_SPAZ_13 (2600 in chips)
13_SPAZ_13: posts small blind 15
tiggs3257: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Amador Ed [Ad Kd]
sask1st: calls 30
aka-thegr8-1: calls 30
ironcub14: calls 30
SLUGSPIT: calls 30
Amador Ed: calls 30
13_SPAZ_13: calls 15
tiggs3257: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ks Td Jh]
13_SPAZ_13: checks
tiggs3257: bets 30
sask1st: folds
aka-thegr8-1: folds
ironcub14: raises 220 to 250
SLUGSPIT: calls 250
Amador Ed: raises 1125 to 1375 and is all-in
13_SPAZ_13: folds
tiggs3257: folds
ironcub14: raises 1125 to 2500
SLUGSPIT: calls 1095 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Ks Td Jh] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Ks Td Jh Qd] [Qc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ironcub14: shows [Js Kc] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
Amador Ed: shows [Ad Kd] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Amador Ed collected 60 from side pot
SLUGSPIT: shows [Qh Qs] (four of a kind, Queens)
SLUGSPIT collected 4275 from main pot
13_SPAZ_13 said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4335 Main pot 4275. Side pot 60. | Rake 0
Board [Ks Td Jh Qd Qc]
Seat 1: tiggs3257 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: sask1st folded on the Flop
Seat 3: aka-thegr8-1 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: ironcub14 showed [Js Kc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 5: SLUGSPIT showed [Qh Qs] and won (4275) with four of a kind, Queens
Seat 8: Amador Ed (button) showed [Ad Kd] and won (60) with a straight, Ten to
Ace
Seat 9: 13_SPAZ_13 (small blind) folded on the Flop

All i can say is i was lucky to get any chips from that one, was out 5 hands later when the BB got to me....
 
MrDaMan

MrDaMan

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Yeah there are a lot of differant ways to play this but 90% of the outcomes would be the same. This is just one of those wild rides that happens in poker sometimes. You know when you think the poker gods are out to get you. :mad:

It's early in the tournament I wouldv'e popped the pre-flop to 90, the Q/Q would have called or raised and maybe the K/J would have folded. If the Q/Q re-raised you could either fold,call or re-raise again to see where your at. At this point the K/J should be gone. If the Q/Q raises all-in you have to know it's a race, it's early in the tournament fold or call. I like to hit or miss early myself but some people like playing tighter early.

Post flop a pot sized bet might get the Q/Q to fold, if they call and see the Q on the turn they will be commited. You'll win this hand 999 out of 1000 (actual percentages may vary :D ) The river just blew you out of the water and that's just going to happen sometimes.

But the plain answer is yes it can be played differantly, but I think most of the time the way this played out is fairly normal. Most players would have seen the A/K and Q/Q to the river .. the K/J should have folded pre-flop with a pre-flop bet/re-raise but was let in to see the flop cheap and couldn't let go of 2 pair.

It's poker STUFF happens. :eek:
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

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Ed, with Big Slick you don't want a lot of folks in the pot. Pre flop you normally want to raise 3x to 5x the big blind to drive people out & either take the pot down or isolate 1 or 2 players. Post flop you are holding TPTK, but are looking at 1 bet, potsized raise, call & 3 folks still to act after you, & because you didn't fire preflop you really don't know where you stand. Time to say oops & walk away.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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No pre-flop raise?!? What on earth? There is no conceivable reason to not raise here after 4 limpers. Limping behind is just so very very bad. And the guy who suggested popping it to 90, especially at this blind stage, that's way too low. General rule is 3xBB + 1BB for each limper, sometimes 4 + 1. But when the blinds are this low, it's often a good idea to make it even more, because people are willing to call more with weaker holdings because the amounts look paltry in relation to stack sizes.

You have to pop it to at least 200 pre-flop, I'm begging you.
 
t1riel

t1riel

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A big raise preflop would have been ideal. Still, you would have lost anyway on a painful runner runner quads.
 
MrDaMan

MrDaMan

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And the guy who suggested popping it to 90, especially at this blind stage, that's way too low. General rule is 3xBB + 1BB for each limper, sometimes 4 + 1. But when the blinds are this low, it's often a good idea to make it even more, because people are willing to call more with weaker holdings because the amounts look paltry in relation to stack sizes.

To each their own, from 90 to 200 a pre-flop raise is the right play. How much exactly is debatable. It's early in the tourney why blow 200 or 140 when 90 can do the job? If your re-raised you can re-raise again depending on the size of the Q/Q's re-raise to find out where you are or just dump the A/K without losing too many chips.

While I do like to hit or miss early if the Q/Q goes all-in after my 90 dollar raise or re-raises more than another 90 which is a double re-raise, I can easily fold this hand pre-flop. Another example of how this hand could've been played differantly.

There are still a lot of variables, playing style, early image impression, position etc. A/K play is variable and dependant on a lot of factors and can be played super, medium or plain aggressive even an occasional limp as dangerous as that is can be profitable if the circumstances go your way ... if they don't then it's an easy lay down. (Unless a scenario like the one described above happens and they do happen, which is why a raise pre-flop is better than limping)

The key to this guys post is not the textbook play by play as much as what variables can I learn if played differantly. A/K works both ways as "Big Slick" you can go from zero to hero just as easily as from hero to zero.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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Versus a bet and raise on a 7-way KJT rainbow flop, I'm not liking one pair much. Call if you must, then shove the turn. You're freerolling with your diamond draw versus another Ace.
 
Tammy

Tammy

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Ed, you absolutely, positively, never, ever, limp here. You've got four limpers behind you. If you simply limp w/ this hand and take it to the flop with seven players in the hand (assuming everyone limped), then your hand is VERY vulnerable. Combuboom gives good advice. Take note of it. :)
 
J

joeeagles

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Again, I agree with BJ on this one. As played, limping (terrible BTW as was already said) and 3 high cards on the flop in a 7-way pot I'm not too crazy about top pair, particularly when you already have a pot size raise and a caller. I don't think that was a good spot to reraise all-in with that board and that action.

Looking again at hand history I see the player with QQ on a K high flop call your all-in after it was already called by another player, which makes me think there was no way to get this guy to fold so pretty much you were dead meat no matter how you play this unless you fold on the flop, since on the turn you would have a straight with a nut diamond draw so your chips were going in no matter what.

Those, however, regardless of the outcome, were the 2 things you should have done differently: raising PF, and, as played with the limp, not going all-in with that board.
 
onebigblue

onebigblue

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i probly would have raise bigger pre flop 2 thin the field after that it might have been easier 2 see the danger after the flop
 
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