AJo - ITM - 17BB

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DrCartinha

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Game Hand #353354388 - Tournament #20600915 - Holdem(No Limit) - Level 20 (1000.00/2000.00)- 2020/05/14 00:27:13 UTC
Table '67' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Tidal Chaser (23902.00)
Seat 2: appleman1339 (26193.00)
Seat 3: AApokerface (102067.00)
Seat 4: Alejandroo (34855.00)
Seat 6: worldwideruler (40142.00)
Seat 7: DrCartinha (33438.00)
Seat 8: DJWatchMeGo (22440.00)
Seat 9: chyno (31568.00)
Tidal Chaser posts ante 250.00
appleman1339 posts ante 250.00
AApokerface posts ante 250.00
Alejandroo posts ante 250.00
worldwideruler posts ante 250.00
DrCartinha posts ante 250.00
DJWatchMeGo posts ante 250.00
chyno posts ante 250.00
chyno posts the small blind 1000.00
Tidal Chaser posts the big blind 2000.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Main pot 2000.00
Dealt to DrCartinha [Ad Jh]
appleman1339 folds
AApokerface folds
Alejandroo folds
worldwideruler folds

Now its Hero Action, what do you think is the best play and why?
 
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300HPGOD

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There is some villain dependency here based on what you know about them and how they play but the first thing you need to get in the habit of if you don't already is to look at the stack sizes of those players left to act behind you. All of them are shove size stacks with the button directly to your right only having 11 BB. It is important to know the stacks of those to your left especially when you are a bit deeper than you are here (say you were at 25-35 BB instead of 17BB).

With all that said I dont think we can raise fold here or should be raise folding with this stack size. AJ is a strong hand from the cutoff so I would say your options are to open jam or to raise (min raise to 2.5BB) with the intention of calling a jam. The latter might induce more action from those behind you but you dont necessarily want to get called either (not sure any of them would just call instead of jamming but you never know). I think since you know that you are not folding to a raise and you can avoid and weird flops if you do get called the best action would be to just open jam the 17BB. You could get called by worse (maybe A10, A9, suited broadways) and will run into bigger hands at times as well. However, we arent folding here and min raising has its perils as well. Jamming gives us an opportunity to steal the blinds and still have a strong hand if we do get called.
 
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fundiver199

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Open jam all day long with these stack sizes, as have already been said by 300HPGOD. And please use the free hand converter here on the site next time. It makes it so much easier to read the hand history :)
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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there is certainly some merit to jamming a hand like this - but when we start open jamming hands above 15bb it becomes harder and harder to find a call, especially from a worse hand. The larger we open shove, the more likely we are to be in bad shape or flipping when opponents find a call.

I would open raise here with the intent to call off any rejams aside from those who I may have marked as super nitty players. I think I still open raise this hand 2.1x at 15bb and start open shoving it moreso around the 13bb and 14bb range - but thats splitting hairs. Point is by shoving 17bb we are forcing opponents to be pretty strong to call us off, and if we are comfortable and know how to play post flop - we make more $$ open raising. Surely sometimes we are going to cbet flop and get raised or have to give up - but thats ok - sometimes the board is going to come down great for a BB defend range and not for us - that's OK too. Don't be afraid to open raise and have to fold - 15bb is no big deal and we can still easily navigate the tournament with 15 bigs.

In conclusion, I would raise here - call off any jams preflop - and if we flop top or we can easily go broke, we flop a flush draw we can go broke. If we get called, we play out hand post flop as we know how - we ate going to cbet and take it down a vast majority of the time, and so we will make more $$ rather than open shoving.
 
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bempassado

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There is some villain dependency here based on what you know about them and how they play but the first thing you need to get in the habit of if you don't already is to look at the stack sizes of those players left to act behind you. All of them are shove size stacks with the button directly to your right only having 11 BB. It is important to know the stacks of those to your left especially when you are a bit deeper than you are here (say you were at 25-35 BB instead of 17BB).

With all that said I dont think we can raise fold here or should be raise folding with this stack size. AJ is a strong hand from the cutoff so I would say your options are to open jam or to raise (min raise to 2.5BB) with the intention of calling a jam. The latter might induce more action from those behind you but you dont necessarily want to get called either (not sure any of them would just call instead of jamming but you never know). I think since you know that you are not folding to a raise and you can avoid and weird flops if you do get called the best action would be to just open jam the 17BB. You could get called by worse (maybe A10, A9, suited broadways) and will run into bigger hands at times as well. However, we arent folding here and min raising has its perils as well. Jamming gives us an opportunity to steal the blinds and still have a strong hand if we do get called.

This is a pretty good explanation !
 
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DrCartinha

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Open jam all day long with these stack sizes, as have already been said by 300HPGOD. And please use the free hand converter here on the site next time. It makes it so much easier to read the hand history :)



Sorry, I am brand new in here
 
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DrCartinha

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there is certainly some merit to jamming a hand like this - but when we start open jamming hands above 15bb it becomes harder and harder to find a call, especially from a worse hand. The larger we open shove, the more likely we are to be in bad shape or flipping when opponents find a call.

I would open raise here with the intent to call off any rejams aside from those who I may have marked as super nitty players. I think I still open raise this hand 2.1x at 15bb and start open shoving it moreso around the 13bb and 14bb range - but thats splitting hairs. Point is by shoving 17bb we are forcing opponents to be pretty strong to call us off, and if we are comfortable and know how to play post flop - we make more $$ open raising. Surely sometimes we are going to cbet flop and get raised or have to give up - but thats ok - sometimes the board is going to come down great for a BB defend range and not for us - that's OK too. Don't be afraid to open raise and have to fold - 15bb is no big deal and we can still easily navigate the tournament with 15 bigs.

In conclusion, I would raise here - call off any jams preflop - and if we flop top or we can easily go broke, we flop a flush draw we can go broke. If we get called, we play out hand post flop as we know how - we ate going to cbet and take it down a vast majority of the time, and so we will make more $$ rather than open shoving.



In this spot i just jammed, but in my review I thought like you, that's 40 left... The exploit play to win chips is to bet and call a re-steal, but in other situation like FT bubble and FT, when ICM makes difference - I think its better to just jamm for shorter variance.

Sorry my english, brazilian guy
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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In this spot i just jammed, but in my review I thought like you, that's 40 left... The exploit play to win chips is to bet and call a re-steal, but in other situation like FT bubble and FT, when ICM makes difference - I think its better to just jamm for shorter variance.

Sorry my english, brazilian guy



I don't think jamming is a huge mistake and it is for sure the lower variance route - still the fact remains that the more BBs we open shove the stronger our opponents have to be to call us off . So with a hand like AJ - both suited and offsuit - when we shove bigger stack sizes and get called we are often going to be dominated or flipping with under pairs a lot.
 
Alex_Ogienko

Alex_Ogienko

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the best move in this case is to raise. With such a hand, it is then easy to call all-in.
 
Micro Maven

Micro Maven

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I don't think jamming is a huge mistake and it is for sure the lower variance route - still the fact remains that the more BBs we open shove the stronger our opponents have to be to call us off . So with a hand like AJ - both suited and offsuit - when we shove bigger stack sizes and get called we are often going to be dominated or flipping with under pairs a lot.


2/3 of his opponents only had ~10bb effective. the other had a stack around hero so would need a very strong hand to call.

raise/calling or jamming are both fine in this spot
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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2/3 of his opponents only had ~10bb effective. the other had a stack around hero so would need a very strong hand to call.

raise/calling or jamming are both fine in this spot


In this specific instance I agree. I am not saying that jamming here is terrible - I don't think its a massive mistake but a minor one at best.

In this specific instance given stack sizes, its fine - however speaking in general, the more BB we open shove the stronger our opponents have to be to call us off -- so not only do we force competent players to call us off with the top of their range, but we also fold out weaker players who may call us with a weaker Ax or baby pairs which we can take to value town, or get them to check-fold a ton of flops and we make more $$ long term. I'm not picking apart the OPS play here - just trying to get them into good habits. If he starts open jamming 20+ BBs because he doesn't want to raise-call off or has trouble raise-folding, then he is making some mistakes preflop he should focus on fixing those leaks.

That is my simplest point. Not that the hero made a massive mistake - because they didn't - but getting in the habits of playing correctly will make them more $$ over the long term.
 
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DancingNancie

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Open jam all day long with these stack sizes, as have already been said by 300HPGOD. And please use the free hand converter here on the site next time. It makes it so much easier to read the hand history :)

I am not sure about an open jam with with this stack size. We are really only going to get called by better and are just hoping to take down the pot. I think a 3x raise would do the same trick and can make a judgement call if our raise gets jammed on or play post flop if called.
 
VovanBaron

VovanBaron

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It s pretty good open raise hand for such stack size but if you think you can get call with hand worse you can openjamming but usually u ll get coin or worse/ so it s up to you mate/gl at the table!
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

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Open jam will be better option. But if opponents very aggressive you may consider raise option.
 
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