AA lost - Need help!!!

D

DaDerDow

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Jan 18, 2008
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1
Hello all.

Been playing now for 3 months and have read some books on what type of player you need to be to be in profit. I've read only the basic books. Dont think I'm ready for the advanced ones yet. lol
I play tight and try to be aggressive but still learning that part.

Anyway, I recently played the following hand at a SnG and the top 5 get $10 after paying $5 and $0.50 fee. I try and get 2500+ before the big blinds come. Some of the players are maniacs and knock each other out so I only play premium hands but do try and mix it up.


I played the following hand and need your advise as what I done wrong if anything.
I think I possibly should have made a larger pre-flop bet but unsure as still learning.
After the flop and when the caller called, I put him on a high pair like KK, QQ or JJ

I wasn't able to tell what type of player he was as we had only played a few hands.

Many thanks for any comment. Heres the hand



Stacks:
- danking with $1590.00 - VdubChick with $1440.00 - laaajf with $1630.00 - dickie with $1770.00 - neil4042 with $2970.00 - shaz101 with $1430.00 - jonnyboy3799 with $1470.00 - DatDerDow with $1390.00 - Ashegotit with $0.00 - shiney69 with $1290.00



index.pl

Site: Ladbrokes / Prima
- Dealt to DatDerDow:
:ah4:
:ad4:
- Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
- 1 players fold.
- danking called - $10.00
- 1 players fold.
- laaajf called - $10.00
- 1 players fold.
neil4042 called - $10.00
- 1 players fold.
jonnyboy3799 called - $10.00
- DatDerDow bet - $50.00
- danking called - $50.00
- laaajf called - $50.00 neil4042 called - $50.00 jonnyboy3799 called - $50.00
- Total folds this street: 4
Flop:
:6s4:
:2h4: :4c4:
- DatDerDow bet - $260.00
- 2 players fold.
neil4042 called - $260.00 jonnyboy3799 called - $260.00
- Total folds this street: 2
Turn:
:9d4:

- DatDerDow bet - $1040.00 neil4042 called - $1040.00
- 1 players folded.
- Total folds this street: 1
River:
:jh4:

- DatDerDow checked neil4042 bet - $83.15
- 1 players fold.
- DatDerDow went all-in - $50.00
- neil4042 shows :
:4s4:
:4h4:
- Ashegotit shows :
:7d4:
:9s4: neil4042 wins $60.00 from the main pot neil4042 wins $3220.00 from side pot 1
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
DaDerDow said:
I think I possibly should have made a larger pre-flop bet but unsure as still learning.
Definately!

A general rule of thumb is that the standard raise should be 3xBB + 1xBB for every limper in front of you. Thus, a standard raise here would be to $70. Also, since you're holding aces very early in the S&G where everyone is mega-loose early, I'd bump it up to around $120. You could even make a good arguement for just shoving all your chips in pre-flop, since you'll often get callers.

After that flop, I like the lead out for $260 (a bit large), but after you get 2 callers, you need to slow down some. There were a ton of people drawing against your aces, and you got out-drawn. Them calling your big fat lead-out is their way of telling you that. It'd still be hard to get away from the hand after a flop like that, which is a smaller mistake.

Anyways, the key point to take home here is that aces are just a pair, and they're not a big favorite against 5 callers. S&G's are very loose at lower stake levels early, so POUND those fish pre-flop, and get down to 1-2 opponents.
 
S

switch0723

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
8,430
You pre flop raise is too small but you already know that. Your flop bet seems fine, but after getting two callers, dont bet so much on the turn. If you had bet out 500 on the turn and got called, i think you could have come to the assumption you were already beat, and saved 500 on the river, which you never know could have tripled up to put you back in game
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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Oct 25, 2007
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Wow, learning at 1000nl ftw

yep pf raise bigga fo sho, turn shove excessive but otherwise hand is fine. Nice flop size bet. What your username and what site do you play on so I can rail ya?
 
rob5775

rob5775

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Mar 16, 2007
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Wow, learning at 1000nl ftw


Jake, it's a $5 sng. The converter didn't read it right, I think.

PF, raise it up more being that your learning. If you think you have good post flop play/reads then I don't mind that raise.

On the flop, when you get two callers on a essentially draw-less board you should have warning bells firing off. Early/middle limpers who call a raise usually have small/med pocket pairs. This board fits those hands perfectly. After getting two calls in that spot just check the turn and slow down. Fold to a large bet and call a small turn bet and re-access on the river.

Great first post btw.
 
DaveE

DaveE

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I agree completely with the above replies.

My rule of thumb with AA in the very early stages...

First in, 150% of what you'd normally raise.

1 limper, double your raise.

2 limpers or a raise, ALL IN.

Usually you will isolate one player and be dominating vs ace paint or a decent pair...or you'll just take down the pot.
 
Last edited:
bob_tiger

bob_tiger

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Wow, learning at 1000nl ftw

yep pf raise bigga fo sho, turn shove excessive but otherwise hand is fine. Nice flop size bet. What your username and what site do you play on so I can rail ya?

lol...ya its a sit n go he did mention that in the post :D . personally i dont think hand is fine. Considering AA loses like crazy all the time i would just make a big raise and then play it aggresive as possible, but i do understand his play since he didnt know that someone had trips with that on board
 
ratmantoo

ratmantoo

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Early on in a tourney it can be difficult to put anyone on a hand as they'll call with anything (we all know those maniacs) because the blinds are so low.

The preflop raise (5xBB) was by the book but way too low here.

I like the bet post flop. With the call though I agree that alarm bells should start ringing.:eek:

The turn - this is the turning point in the game. A check would either have enticed a bet or a check. If the opponent bets big we can assume they have a set, and fold. A smallish bet we have to call. A check (by the opponent) gets us a free card anyway and opens another can of worms ;)
But by this stage we should be fairly convinced our hand is second best, especially with two callers.(Just noticed the two callers - WTF calling 5xBB with 97o??:confused:)

This is typically the situation you are looking for with small pocket pairs, hit the set and hope someone bets at the pot. Its a golden hand and more often than not pays off. Dont be discouraged. Keep playing your game - a bit aggressively but still good. Just a bit of seasoning is required:top: and theres plenty of spice on this site:D
 
S

sportyguy2k

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you should have raised it to like 120 or so to get the smaller pairs ect out and try to keep the a/q k/q ect in and no small cards
 
daxter70

daxter70

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you should have raised it to like 120 or so to get the smaller pairs ect out and try to keep the a/q k/q ect in and no small cards

if he moves all in, the 44 calls, anypairanywhere!!!!
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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if he moves all in, the 44 calls, anypairanywhere!!!!

Agreed, you were probably losing this hand regardless, but a bigger preflop raise would defiantly be the right move here.
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

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if he moves all in, the 44 calls, anypairanywhere!!!!

Small and medium pairs are exactly the hands we want to call our AA. So, if 44 will call a preflop shove then a preflop shove is the right play since we will be a 4 to 1 favorite. The results don't matter.

I agree the preflop raise was much too small. Wtih 4 limpers already and considering the type of game it is with loose wild maniacs calling anything we throw standard by the book play out the window and shove. A "normal" game we play differently of course but this type of game isn't normal and we can't think that way. 90% or the time a shove here after 4 limpers will get at least one call if not more. WE WANT THE TYPES OF HANDS THAT WILL CALL A SHOVE TO CALL. Hands like pairs and AK AQ, might call and we dominate those hands. We want the suited connector type hands to fold not the small pairs.
 
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