AA in big blind....

[Divebitch]

It depends how tight is tight. We need to maximise some value here, so we have to raise. Flatting is pretty bad I think as were playing our premium hand oop. I usually go for 3-3.5 x his raise so 6-7k is goot. Obv playing for stack on pretty much any flop.

I don't mid the all in shove but we probably get him to fold most of his hands with the exception of QQ+ AK, especially if our image it tight, which I'm sure it is

One important thing you have to look at. Everyone else had folded to you. If this guy's been playing tight, assume a monster. But none as great as yours. Smooth call however, is out of the question. But I probably wouldn't even raise to 6 or 7. I WANT him to call, so maybe 2x his raise bumping it to 4 or 5, knowing full well i'm all-in after the flop. You are HU now, and if he's got KK and a K flops, I'll take my chances.

 

[silverslugger33]

Well, I'm a trapper so that's exactly what I'd do here. Just call. If there is a threatening flop (a straight draw or a flush draw), then bet out, but otherwise I'd check-call. Their likely to throw out a continuation bet, so you should get more in the pot when you likely have the best hand. On the turn, I'd probably check again. If they check behind, then bet the river, if the bet, I'd call and then check-raise the river (unless you think you might be beat).

 

[Jagsti]

Is their a flaw in that? I ask b/c you obv have more knowledge than I on this

Well imo yes there is. Daks hasn't said how tight this guy is, but he's raising from MP, so he can have a fairly wide range here. If we flat and you wanna play for stacks what you gonna do on a broadway flop, or a flop like 468 mono. We could be playing for stacks with very little equity. I would rather get outdrawn knowing that I have made him pay for it rather than letting him hit his set/2pr on the flop. Just my opinion though as I suck at donkaments.

 

[Stick66]

If your read is correct and villian has been playing tight, then I can see no valid reason for anything else apart from a shove, especially since he has opened from EP.

Min-raising is bad, especially if you havnt done it before on the table, considering that we can give away our hand strength, and there is a lot of flops that can kill action if he has a hand like JJ.

If he has been c-betting every time he has raised pre, then we can always take the risky approach and flat pre, CRAI on any flop.

Raising 6K or so, is kinda awkard considering the stack sizes, if he is going to call 6K more pre, then he will call a shove.

This, ^^^^ but add one thing...

(Yes, I was gonna say this before the results were posted)
I think in a situation like this, you have to go 3rd level. How does the villain see you? If he sees you as tight, he most likely won't call a PF shove with such large stack size. But if he sees you as loose, he may call your shove or maybe even 4-bet if you just 3-bet.

Hmmmm. Flatting PF leaves you approx. 14K on the flop with a 5K pot. But 3-betting to 6K and getting a call would leave you 10K on the flop with a 13K pot. So actually, I like 3-betting PF and open shoving the flop. KK and QQ just might call with those good odds and JJ might against a loose image.

 

[silverslugger33]

Well imo yes there is. Daks hasn't said how tight this guy is, but he's raising from MP, so he can have a fairly wide range here. If we flat and you wanna play for stacks what you gonna do on a broadway flop, or a flop like 468 mono. We could be playing for stacks with very little equity. I would rather get outdrawn knowing that I have made him pay for it rather than letting him hit his set/2pr on the flop. Just my opinion though as I suck at donkaments.

While this is a safer play in terms of ensuring that you don't lose money unless you get unlucky, there is a much smaller upside. You seem to be assuming that any 2 random cards that they may be raising with is going to make some kind of big hand, when in reality, this rarely happens. If you trap here, you can double up in a couple situations:

1. They hit top pair, which they'll likely be very confident with.
2. They try to fire out a continuation bet on a flop that they miss and you continue your trap by calling.
3. They are an aggressive player and decide to bet out with bottom or middle pair.

Now, I'm sure I don't even need to tell you that the major downside to trapping is that you leave more room for yourself to get drawn out on. That being said, you do want them to catch up a little bit by making top pair or something, so that you can gain as much as possible from the pot. If they draw out on you and your trap gets busted, so be it.

 

[frisellan]

If you think villain has a hand just wondering why wouldn't you just . .

smooth call allowing villain to think he is in the lead
Check flop allowing villain to steal
reraise any bet all in

If villain has a strong hand he is calling your shove.
If villain is stealing you get his chips from bluff/semi bluff attempt

 

[silverslugger33]

i agree with that. you must raise enough to commit him but not too much cause you want him stay in.

Actually, they're probably more likely to fold to a bet that commits them than to one that takes them all in. Now, before you tell me how that's crazy because they don't want to risk their tournament life, just think about it. Most bets that don't take them all in (or practically all in) are underbets in this scenario. They only possible reason you'd have to underbet here is if you really want action, meaning you have a huge hand. It is just such a suspicious play that if I were in the villain's shoes, I'd put daks on a huge hand here. Again, just smooth call and check the flop. Any continuation bet they throw out will commit them anyway.

 

[ZZFLOP]

I would just call since you're playing him heads-up, with another caller I would make it 6000.

 

[JoeDi]

I would say you push about half your stack.. It's a tournament so you dont really want to risk an all-in with out having a decent idea of what the flop is going to bring.. Especially since he has a bigger stack and an all in would effectively put your tournament life at risk..IF he pushes you obviously call but half your stack should be sufficient.. Assuming the board doesnt pair paint or make you feel uncomfortable i would push then..

 

[silverslugger33]

I would say you push about half your stack.. It's a tournament so you dont really want to risk an all-in with out having a decent idea of what the flop is going to bring.. Especially since he has a bigger stack and an all in would effectively put your tournament life at risk..IF he pushes you obviously call but half your stack should be sufficient.. Assuming the board doesnt pair paint or make you feel uncomfortable i would push then..

I'm not so sure about this play. If you're pushing half your stack in preflop, you will be getting such good odds that you want to call almost any bet on the flop. Also, you can't be scared every time a pair hits the board. If you see a flop like 9JJ, you can't be bluffed off of your aces every time.

 

[silverslugger33]

I would say you push about half your stack.. It's a tournament so you dont really want to risk an all-in with out having a decent idea of what the flop is going to bring.. Especially since he has a bigger stack and an all in would effectively put your tournament life at risk..IF he pushes you obviously call but half your stack should be sufficient.. Assuming the board doesnt pair paint or make you feel uncomfortable i would push then..

I'm not so sure about this play. If you're pushing half your stack in preflop, you will be getting such good odds that you want to call almost any bet on the flop. Also, you can't be scared every time a pair hits the board. If you see a flop like 9JJ, you can't be bluffed off of your aces every time.

 

[Maniakfish]

I'm not so sure about this play. If you're pushing half your stack in preflop, you will be getting such good odds that you want to call almost any bet on the flop. Also, you can't be scared every time a pair hits the board. If you see a flop like 9JJ, you can't be bluffed off of your aces every time.

I agree like if you reraise to 5-6k he comes with you and the flop comes with a Q or K are you gonna fold presuming he has QQ-KK or that he most likely has AQ or AK.

 

[Chamaican666]

Pocket As are best when used early in a poker hand. He most likely had a high suited connector. The best thing, imo, is to call his raise, see the flop. See him miss and then make another bet. If he folds, u get the money from before, if he calls. Hope he doesnt hit on the turn or river.

 

[TheUndertaker]

I will be playing to get the most profit so i'll re-raise to $8000 and ckeck all-in after the flop and hope for the best.lol

 

[angiedubs]

Since he is playing tight based on your read then his raise represents he likes his hand. If you moved-in to answer his raise and he sucks out then that's poker. You put money in for sure with best of it pre-flop. No regrets. If he folds vs your push then you avoid any harm a risky board would give. I'd like move all in or push half stack. Just my take on it.

 

[silverslugger33]

Since he is playing tight based on your read then his raise represents he likes his hand. If you moved-in to answer his raise and he sucks out then that's poker. You put money in for sure with best of it pre-flop. No regrets. If he folds vs your push then you avoid any harm a risky board would give. I'd like move all in or push half stack. Just my take on it.

The blinds are already at level 11, meaning that they are easily worth stealing. While this player is conservative, they easily could be trying to steal the BB with a marginal hand and would fold to a shove. If daks just smooth calls here, then she will likely see a c-bet if there's a non threatening board, and she will definitely see a bet if the villain makes some kind of a hand (top pair, maybe even middle pair with a good kicker). Again with the pushing in half your stack: it makes no sense. It's essentially the same as an all in. They villain is shorstacked enough that if they'll call for half of daks' stack, then they'll call for the whole thing. There's no reason to let them get away from it after the flop, because even if it leaves them screwed for the rest of the tournament, it opens up the possibility that someone else takes their chips.

 

[DocHamer]

What kind of re-raise do you put in here? I know this may be a simple decision for most of you but I am working on every aspect of my game. Villian has a hand based on how he has been playing - pretty tight.

PokerStars Game #23815001842: Tournament #131676615, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2009/01/11 21:56:24 ET
Table '131676615 71' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Str4n (23204 in chips)
Seat 2: Greg Boston (11236 in chips)
Seat 3: Mr Thorne (8632 in chips)
Seat 4: Auerbacher (21458 in chips)
Seat 5: Dr Leusse (30043 in chips)
Seat 6: HhCMotU (19492 in chips)
Seat 7: dakota-xx (16630 in chips)
Seat 8: Moedog (14021 in chips)
Seat 9: bluewapiti (21261 in chips)
Str4n: posts the ante 75
Greg Boston: posts the ante 75
Mr Thorne: posts the ante 75
Auerbacher: posts the ante 75
Dr Leusse: posts the ante 75
HhCMotU: posts the ante 75
dakota-xx: posts the ante 75
Moedog: posts the ante 75
bluewapiti: posts the ante 75
HhCMotU: posts small blind 400
dakota-xx: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dakota-xx [Ad Ac]
Moedog: folds
bluewapiti: folds
Str4n: raises 1200 to 2000
Greg Boston: folds
Mr Thorne: folds
Auerbacher: folds
Dr Leusse: folds
HhCMotU: folds
dakota-xx: ???

I would not be greedy I would just push all in and hope to get a call and protect my hand and hope my A's will stick. I never slow play A A or K K it is always a bad idea to slow play big hands.

 

[silverslugger33]

I would not be greedy I would just push all in and hope to get a call and protect my hand and hope my A's will stick. I never slow play A A or K K it is always a bad idea to slow play big hands.

Then what do you slow play? The only hands that you can slow play are huge hands, because otherwise you get drawn out on too often for it to be profitable. One of the inherent risks to slow playing is that you are far more likely to lose the hand, but when you don't get really unlucky, you wind up winning far more than you would have otherwise won. I would call it smart, rather than greedy.

 

[Chamaican666]

Then what do you slow play? The only hands that you can slow play are huge hands, because otherwise you get drawn out on too often for it to be profitable. One of the inherent risks to slow playing is that you are far more likely to lose the hand, but when you don't get really unlucky, you wind up winning far more than you would have otherwise won. I would call it smart, rather than greedy.

Well the hands to slow play are hands such as suited connectors or low-pocket pairs. U slow play the hands that have the potential to be "nut" hands. With something like two spades and hitting another two spades on the flop, you want to slow play to wait to see if you hit on the turn or river. With a big hand like KK or AA, they are strong, but beaten by the "nut" hands. So you should play them upfront before the opponent gets teh chance of hitting his nut hand. (make him fold.)

 

[silverslugger33]

Well the hands to slow play are hands such as suited connectors or low-pocket pairs. U slow play the hands that have the potential to be "nut" hands. With something like two spades and hitting another two spades on the flop, you want to slow play to wait to see if you hit on the turn or river. With a big hand like KK or AA, they are strong, but beaten by the "nut" hands. So you should play them upfront before the opponent gets teh chance of hitting his nut hand. (make him fold.)

So in other words never slow play unless you have the nuts? That's way too standard. Doing that leads to by-the-book poker (i.e. bet when you have a hand, check/fold when you don't) which leads to you becoming incredibly easy to read. I just don't get why, if you have AA, you would try to make a bet that will get someone to fold a hand like AJ. I can see why you wouldn't want to slow play kings (although not necessarily agree), because anyone with an ace has 3 express outs on you, but if you have AA, you have to keep in mind that any hand you're playing against (aside form the other 2 aces) either is looking at 2 outs from the entire deck or a situation where there is no 1 card that can beat you. I just feel like you can get so much from having AA and letting someone bluff off their chips to you that it's foolish to just bet out every time and let people get away form their hands cheap.

Also, it means that you become far easier to read post flop. If you either called or checked preflop, your opponent knows immediately that you at least don't have AA or KK, and from your posts, I'm guessing you raise with QQ or AK pretty much every time as well, so they could eliminate those for the most part. If you want to be sucessful in tournaments you have to vary your play. If you don't, you won't be around at the end of the tournament. There's no way around that.

 

[Bren]

Many ways to play this hand. The problem is that you're out of position.
To eliminate that problem you might want to push all in if you have a loose image or against a loose oponent.
If it's a tight player a raise to 7500$ should be good. He'll probably raise all in himself or fold.

 

[Chamaican666]

So in other words never slow play unless you have the nuts? That's way too standard. Doing that leads to by-the-book poker (i.e. bet when you have a hand, check/fold when you don't) which leads to you becoming incredibly easy to read. I just don't get why, if you have AA, you would try to make a bet that will get someone to fold a hand like AJ. I can see why you wouldn't want to slow play kings (although not necessarily agree), because anyone with an ace has 3 express outs on you, but if you have AA, you have to keep in mind that any hand you're playing against (aside form the other 2 aces) either is looking at 2 outs from the entire deck or a situation where there is no 1 card that can beat you. I just feel like you can get so much from having AA and letting someone bluff off their chips to you that it's foolish to just bet out every time and let people get away form their hands cheap.

Also, it means that you become far easier to read post flop. If you either called or checked preflop, your opponent knows immediately that you at least don't have AA or KK, and from your posts, I'm guessing you raise with QQ or AK pretty much every time as well, so they could eliminate those for the most part. If you want to be sucessful in tournaments you have to vary your play. If you don't, you won't be around at the end of the tournament. There's no way around that.

Ok i do see where you are coming from. However, if you play your big hands aggressive at first, you eliminate all the possibilities of you paying someone else out. Honestly, I hate having top pair at the flop. Mostly because you have the bigger chance of paying others out. I much rather prefer having 4 spades or w/e by the flop or a two way straight. I think top pairs are just generally bad unless your in prime position. Just my two cents, I do agree with the varying your style a little but only after people "think" they have you read. (can easily steal pots after u get the always have a nut hand when i bet image)

Well, the best ive done in a tournament is 91st/2700 and i always make the top 200ish in those freerolls (2700). I usually play tight until the board thins out and win 1-3 big hands. then once there is less competition (top 500ish left) I start to play more aggressive, accumulating more chips to keep up with the increasing blinds. But, I always get knocked out because I played a hand too hard when I shouldn't of have.

 

[Debi]

(Just for the record - silverslugger's account is banned because it appears to have been phished.)

 

[dg1267]

I'm not so sure about this play. If you're pushing half your stack in preflop, you will be getting such good odds that you want to call almost any bet on the flop. Also, you can't be scared every time a pair hits the board. If you see a flop like 9JJ, you can't be bluffed off of your aces every time.

Also, if he pushes and you know you're going to call, why not get them in there now?

 

[orioles32]

Also, if he pushes and you know you're going to call, why not get them in there now?

Because you need to make sure that all his chips get into the middle. If you shove preflop, they might fold. If you slowplay, they'll likely want to c-bet, and in this case, their c-bet would have to be an all in due to how few chips they have remaining.