AA in the BB

blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
No Limit Holdem Tournament, Big Blind is t80 (7 handed)

Stack sizes:
UTG (t1240)
UTG+1 (t950)
MP1 (t2660)
CO (t1450)
Button (t1620)
SB (t2700)
Hero (t2880)

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is BB with A
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A
spade.gif

UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises to t240, MP1 calls.

Flop: (t520) K
diamond.gif
5
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4
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets t360, MP1 raises to t720, Hero...?


First time opponent has minraised in this SnG, no other real reads. Re-raise or just call? Why? If re-raise, push all-in? Smaller amount?
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
No Limit Holdem Tournament, Big Blind is t80 (7 handed)

Stack sizes:
UTG (t1240)
UTG+1 (t950)
MP1 (t2660)
CO (t1450)
Button (t1620)
SB (t2700)
Hero (t2880)

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is BB with A
heart.gif
A
spade.gif

UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises to t240, MP1 calls.

Flop: (t520) K
diamond.gif
5
diamond.gif
4
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets t360, MP1 raises to t720, Hero...?


First time opponent has minraised in this SnG, no other real reads. Re-raise or just call? Why? If re-raise, push all-in? Smaller amount?


no you dont just call here, if you call you get exactly what he wants because most likley he is on flush draw mini-raises usually mean draw. Think about it if you were in his spot what would you mini-raise with? he has position on you so he is trying to get the extra card on river for free by mini-raising. Do you think he would make this play with AK? I doubt it.

what you do depends on how solid of a player you are, if you are the kind of player that cant lay down AA when the flush shows up then yes push. If you can lay down AA then price him out but not by much. Remember he is only going to hit his fluch 33% of the time and we want him to call.

by the way if he hit a set then you are going broke here but remember set happens maybe 12% of the time so it is very rare, you just cant go around thinking everyone hit a set. I mean this is a terrific flop for AA, no broadway possibility and just the diamond draw. Its very possible QK will pay you off.
 
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blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Yeah, set is the big worry here, since they limped and then called the raise pre-flop. That could easily be 44 or 55. So would people agree it's probably reasonable to just push all-in/raise whatever and except that we're committed and screwed if he hit a set?

Okay, this is better: let's say that the blinds and the bets were the same as here, but now let's say we're early in the WSOP Main Event so we're super deep-stacked. We have 14k chips and our opponent has 15k chips. Same flop and same minraise to 720 chips. Any reason at all to just call? If we re-raise, how much should we re-raise?
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
dont matter

Yeah, set is the big worry here, since they limped and then called the raise pre-flop. That could easily be 44 or 55. So would people agree it's probably reasonable to just push all-in/raise whatever and except that we're committed and screwed if he hit a set?

Okay, this is better: let's say that the blinds and the bets were the same as here, but now let's say we're early in the WSOP Main Event so we're super deep-stacked. We have 14k chips and our opponent has 15k chips. Same flop and same minraise to 720 chips. Any reason at all to just call? If we re-raise, how much should we re-raise?


the level of the individual event should not matter in your decision making process. Basically in poker you want to make the best decisions you can and let the cards fall where they will.

let me ask you this question do you feel you are ahead more then you are behind here? do you think your AA is the best hand right now?

if you answered yes to these questions then the correct play is push, calling right here is not even a option and if you push you are committing yourself. I wouldn't put him all in because I'm looking to get him all in on the turn regardless of what falls. I do not what to scare the flush draw away.

now if you think you are behind more then you are ahead then yes you fold. I personally think you would be nuttie seeing as board is pretty safe.

like I said don't let the buy-in dictate your play.

but in your example if we had more chips the blinds would be higher but saying they are same I would re-raise pot size that gives him 2-1 to call on a 3-1 flush draw. So take whatever the pot is with the added 720 in it and double it. Should be just enough for the bad player to call on his flush draw and just enough that I know we played it correctly and gave him improper odds to call on that draw. Also lets people with top pair know I have a hand, and just enough where a person with a set says "oh goodie".

serioulsy though 12%! 12%! you cant be in fear of sets all the time or you will never get anywhere. If you fold to aggresion everytime you have overpair you are going to lose alot of money to people that are just plain outplaying you. By you I dont mean you personally I mean YOU in general.
 
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blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Oh, don't worry I wasn't stating the hypothetical as though the buy-in or the level of the event would affect my decision-making process. I was letting the fact that we're really deep-stacked effect it; the wsop just happened to be an instance where we'd be really deep-stacked.

Okay, so I'm estimating by your recommendation we'd end up re-raising to about 3000 total, which seems about right. Now supposed opponent pushes all-in. We'd have around 10k left if we fold, which is what we started with, and it's early, so that'd hardly be terrible. Of course, if we call and win, our stack is just over 28k. I would put opponent on either a set or a monster draw (67d?) and would be inclined to fold to a re-re-raise push. Should I consider calling in this situation?
 
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Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET

Shoves, and I don't think it's close. Villain's range is huge and he may well be calling you with K-something (because as we know top pair is the nuts obv), or a flush draw (because he may feel priced in). If he has a set then God bless him.

In the deeper stacked example without reads I probably repop to ~3k and fold to a shove without any reads on villain. With reads, raise-calling or just calling the minraise could be correct, depending on villain.
 
JimboJim

JimboJim

Legend
Unless you have a good reason that he has you beat then push. If you just call the he'll bet the turn and you'll still probably have to call. This way you are at least taking control of the hand.
 
zebranky

zebranky

Rock Star
raise.

Yes, I think you push here, because it's just so unlikely your opponent has a set. I really don't think they are holding a PP - he limped the PF (which a PP might do), but then flat called your raise PF. If he had a pair, knowing it was going to be heads up on the flop, he should be re-raising you or folding to you - because seeing the flop is no advantage to a small/middle PP unless he hits his 2-outer on the flop.

So push and take his money. I think he's betting the draw, or possible TPTK.

As for the hypothetical "if it was the WSOP" question - I would still re-raise to around 3x his raise, which would price him out of the draw. I wouldn't push all-in, and I would fold if he pushed. Why? Because in a multi-day tournament, survival (as opposed to stack-building) is your goal. In the first two days, you will get a couple of nut hands - its better to focus on maximizing those, rather than following AA down for death and glory when it is possible to be beaten.
 
D

Dingodaddy23

Guest
Shoves, and I don't think it's close. Villain's range is huge and he may well be calling you with K-something (because as we know top pair is the nuts obv), or a flush draw (because he may feel priced in). If he has a set then God bless him.


^^^this
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Shoves, and I don't think it's close. Villain's range is huge and he may well be calling you with K-something (because as we know top pair is the nuts obv), or a flush draw (because he may feel priced in). If he has a set then God bless him.

In the deeper stacked example without reads I probably repop to ~3k and fold to a shove without any reads on villain. With reads, raise-calling or just calling the minraise could be correct, depending on villain.

What dorkus said. I see KQ making this play sooo often. That's my prediction :)

p.s. what is the buyin combu?
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
$20 buy-in. Shoved and they had 55, but figured shove was reasonable since it wasn't deep-stacked enough that I could make a raise to find out where I was. That's why I asked the deepstack question. Thanks guys.
 
zebranky

zebranky

Rock Star
$20 buy-in. Shoved and they had 55, but figured shove was reasonable since it wasn't deep-stacked enough that I could make a raise to find out where I was. That's why I asked the deepstack question. Thanks guys.

I won't call the other guy a donk for calling PF, but he made the "bad math play" to see the flop. He's willing to call your raise so that he can take a small PP into heads up - not one of the brightest plays in the book. He would have done far better for himself by raising you PF, because a low pair really doesn't want to see a flop, and he may have gotten a fold (if you were holding, say, KJ or A-rag).

Having said that, you're stuck with AA and nothing obvious on the flop - he hit the lucky set, and you pretty much have to pay him off (remember the whole 12% chance thing), because playing any other way is going to mean you get less value out of your Aces the other 88% of the time.
 
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