$888 NL HE MTT: Call or fold when you know that you are behind?

[mariussica88]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

888

Game Options

1. Bounty

Currency

$

This is an $8.88 tournament, not $888


Do you guys call here? You definitely know that you are behind here 100% and pretty much hope that the cards of the opponents are " canceling " them self and you hit your 2 outers.

I just called because the players have big bounties (+$10 to $19) on there heads and I cover them all.

!!! Note that I would not do this if they had more then 30bb


GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - 300/600 (90 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 9,820 (16 bb)
MP: 14,072 (23 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 92,940 (155 bb)
CO: 14,513 (24 bb)
BU: 2,131 (4 bb)
SB: 12,730 (21 bb)
BB: 18,098 (30 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,530) Hero is MP+1 with 4♠ 4♦
1 fold, MP raises to 1,320, Hero calls 1,320, CO calls 1,320, BTN 3-bets to 2,041 (all-in), SB 4-bets to 12,640 (all-in), 1 fold, MP 5-bets to 13,982 (all-in), Hero calls 12,662, 1 fold

Flop: (45,195) K♣ 5♦ A♠ (4 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: (45,195) 7♥ (4 players, 3 all-in)

River: (45,195) J♣ (4 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: 45,195

Spoiler

Showdown:
MP shows 9♦ 8♦ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 10%, River: 0%)

SB shows A♦ K♥ (two pair, Aces and Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 29%, Flop: 75%, Turn: 80%, River: 100%)

BU shows Q♦ Q♣ (a pair of Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 35%, Flop: 10%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

MP+1 (Hero) shows 4♠ 4♦ (a pair of Fours)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 10%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

SB wins 42,511
MP+1 (Hero) wins 2,684

 

[Kinalha]

155 blinds? You can gamble a lot of hands against 23 efective and multiple bounties. Normal mtts i fold, bounty i keep calling this hand

 

[markdias]

Fold

 

[eetenor]

This is an $8.88 tournament, not $888


Do you guys call here? You definitely know that you are behind here 100% and pretty much hope that the cards of the opponents are " canceling " them self and you hit your 2 outers.

I just called because the players have big bounties (+$10 to $19) on there heads and I cover them all.

!!! Note that I would not do this if they had more then 30bb


GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - 300/600 (90 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 9,820 (16 bb)
MP: 14,072 (23 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 92,940 (155 bb)
CO: 14,513 (24 bb)
BU: 2,131 (4 bb)
SB: 12,730 (21 bb)
BB: 18,098 (30 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,530) Hero is MP+1 with 4♠ 4♦
1 fold, MP raises to 1,320, Hero calls 1,320, CO calls 1,320, BTN 3-bets to 2,041 (all-in), SB 4-bets to 12,640 (all-in), 1 fold, MP 5-bets to 13,982 (all-in), Hero calls 12,662, 1 fold

Flop: (45,195) K♣ 5♦ A♠ (4 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: (45,195) 7♥ (4 players, 3 all-in)

River: (45,195) J♣ (4 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: 45,195

Spoiler

Showdown:
MP shows 9♦ 8♦ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 10%, River: 0%)

SB shows A♦ K♥ (two pair, Aces and Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 29%, Flop: 75%, Turn: 80%, River: 100%)

BU shows Q♦ Q♣ (a pair of Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 35%, Flop: 10%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

MP+1 (Hero) shows 4♠ 4♦ (a pair of Fours)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 10%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

SB wins 42,511
MP+1 (Hero) wins 2,684

The key to this hand is how low your pair is- we are just not ahead of enough hand combos here---There are very few runouts that give us a little extra equity- in this spot a suited connector hand would be a better call but as you see you could have been dominated---In B-MTT we want to set mine non-all-in spots not call off knowing we have to hit in a 4 way pot with baby pairs.

We still stack protect in B-MTT as having a big stack later in the MTT lets us scoop more bounties when everyone else is short.

 

[Dimidrol2]

I think it’s not worth chasing obscure rewards and risking a large stack. An MTT game does not last for three hands. With a large stack, you can play aggressively and openly, but is it worth it?

 

[dallam]

When BTN puts in, and SB follow with a 4-bet shove we are in a bad shape.

The whole action started from stacks around 20bb, which likely willing to go all-in pre. Meaning SB had to count with calls on his shove, and it indicates a significant better pair or two overcards, so in best case we're flipping with this person.
MP (the original agressor) going for it as well, who could also have the similar range as SB, but even better if calling the 4-bet shove.
The circle came back to you, even tho 133bbs are amazing to continue with, I'm not sure at this point that even set can save us and harvest these bounties. We more likely burn our chips in this one.
Your decision here is never wrong(!) as you can't lose that much to speculate in anything bad, but almost never benefits you either. So that's a real waltz.

 

[300HPGOD]

Exactly what everyone else has said above. The initial call is fine but when then there is a raise over that then you are literally flop dependent on a 4, otherwise you would be behind almost always with that many people in the pot. Set mining for a small bet (the initial call) is what we should be doing but after that this is really a simple fold and very very bad call on your part.

 

[fundiver199]

Unless this was a PKO, I actually prefer to fold, when the action first got to you. The issue with calling here is, that while you have a big stack, MP does not, and neither do any of the players behind. So you are not getting good implied odds to setmine. In top of that its quite likely, that if anyone behind except BB wants to play, then they will squeeze rather than call. And you dont want to call off anyone other than BTN. So as played its an easy fold. You could also consider to 3-bet yourself, but I dont like that option either given the stack sizes and your position.

 

[rhoudini]

If the hand had just one more villain besides the short stack, I think we can call, but when there are already 2 players with more than 20 BBs chasing the short stack, it is not worth to also chase bounties with pair of fours.
Ok, you got the bounty of MP, right? This time it worked, but in general it is very unlikely that you will get any of the bounties, unless a 4 appears on the board, because his range (at least in theory) is more restricted, because he is already the 3rd player shoving, so we need to restrict our range a little bit. I think I would call just with TT+, AQ+ (sometimes AJs or KQs, maybe? depending on additional info of opponents)

 

[spunka]

We have roughly 10% chance to win, as we are up against 3 players we can conclude there will be at least one with pair above our 44.
so why give away chips ? poker is about getting chips not give them away.

 

[fundiver199]

I failed to notice, that this was a PKO, which is stated in the header. That makes the call a bit better, but we cant do a proper analysis of a PKO hand without knowing the chip value of the bounties of all 3 opponents. And to calculate that we need to know the starting stack and the stage of the tournament. So your question simply can not be answered, because you have not given all the information, which is nessesary to answer it properly. I suggest watching this video about the math behind PKOs: