88 in SB vs. Standard PF Raise

The Shrog

The Shrog

Cardschat Elite
Dec 5, 2007
Total posts
full tilt poker Game #6940257657: $5,500 Guarantee (1r+1a) (52047789), Table 22 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:46:27 ET - 2008/06/23
Seat 1: EirikF (6,361)
Seat 3: 688079FT (18,260)
Seat 4: The Shrog (8,785)
Seat 5: drawface (16,253)
Seat 6: VinSane32 (7,012)
Seat 7: el67ko (5,260)
Seat 9: cardmojo (35,658)
EirikF antes 50
688079FT antes 50
The Shrog antes 50
drawface antes 50
VinSane32 antes 50
el67ko antes 50
cardmojo antes 50
The Shrog posts the small blind of 200
drawface posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Shrog [8s 8d]
VinSane32 folds
Freddy Power sits down
Freddy Power adds 21,302
el67ko folds
cardmojo folds
cardmojo: gg
cardmojo: sry bout the beat
EirikF raises to 1,200
688079FT folds
cardmojo: first set i've hit all tourney tho
The Shrog has 15 seconds left to act
The Shrog?

This player has been fairly TAG, haven't seen him at this table in many pots. We are down to 73, with 36 ITM.


Is drawing with AK
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
If villain is aggro and is likely to have a wide range, I'd shove over him.

If he's a solid player, I'd muck the 8's. Since he's TAG, I'd opt towards mucking.

Calling and playing a flop is really only acceptable vs. the most passive of opponents.


Sep 9, 2007
Total posts
Against a tight player, probably muck. You are OOP, so if you don't hit your set, you are going to be left playing essentially middle pair OOP against a decent-sized pot.


Jul 4, 2005
Total posts
It's possible to fold this, but my normal play would be to shove. A fold has to be read dependent. Over how many hands are you basing your TAG assessment? It doesn't sound like a lot. Unless I had a sample of 40+ hands, I wouldn't fold it no matter how tight he seemed.

I suppose another consideration is how tightly the table is playing as a whole. If you can steal the blinds a couple of times per round reliably, then your average win per hand might be higher than your average win in this hand. That would have to be an extremely tight table, though. Also, keep in mind that your table is going to either take on new players or break completely when one more player busts, so you can't count on being able to steal blinds forever.

You need to accumulate a bunch more chips in order to cash, let alone win. Unless you know the raiser to be very tight, what are the chances you'll get spots better than this one? 88 is a strong hand with seven players and the pot has a bunch of potentially dead money in it. I strongly prefer to attack in these spots.

Also, I like hitting the 8. Definitely hit an 8 if you can.


Jun 13, 2008
Total posts
In a vast majority of cases I'd shove it in that spot, but if you feel comfortable with your reads on that table you perhaps could pass the eights. In my opinion the right play in that spot would be to ship it in 90% of the cases.
And I agree with viking999, hitting the 8 is certainly fun.


Rock Star
Apr 16, 2008
Total posts
Let me get this right, CO makes a standard raise, you in SB, and BB has bigger stack. Right? Worried about being 'squeezed' here?

Flat call, see what the BB/Big stack does, shoving here makes no sense, still 2 to act, BB and CO raiser. You have mediocre middlin pp.

Still may be 'squeezed', but you can then call off your stack, or see the flop, play from there.

lather, rinse, repeat...


Broomcorn's uncle
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
With an M over 10, I think we can probably fold and find a better spot to get our money in. We don't have a big enough stack to play this for set value, and flopping a set is about the only flop we can expect that will make us happy. So flat calling is out.

I wouldn't hate a shove, but if the villain has been fairly well behaved up to this point we've gotta figure them for a hand that's likely to call us - particularly since they've already put about 20% of their stack in the pot with the raise. And if we get called we've gotta figure to be behind the villain's range: at best we're flipping against overcards, at worst we're dominated by a bigger pair.

I guess on the upside we won't be out if we lose, we'll just be crippled. Still not a high-percentage play though.