77 vs maniac push

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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At first we were playing two tables of 4 players, then the tables merged, so Tammy's stats of ~30/20/2 aren't completely indicative of her style, but she's been active.

The hand in question happened directly after this:

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed)

UTG (t1943)
MP (t1270)
Button (t2689)
Hero (t1938)
BB (t4160)

Preflop: Hero is SB with
qd.gif
,
qs.gif
.
2 folds, Button raises to t450, Hero raises to t1111, 1 fold, Button raises to t2689, Hero calls t827 (All-In).

Flop: (t4777)
9c.gif
,
5c.gif
,
8d.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t4777)
5d.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t4777)
jc.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t4026

Button has Td Ad (one pair, fives).
Hero has Qd Qs (two pair, queens and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins t4026. Button wins t751.


...can we call this?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed)

BB (t1943)
UTG (t1270)
MP (t751)
Hero (t4026)
SB (t4010)

Preflop: Hero is Button with
7h.gif
,
7d.gif
.
1 fold, MP raises to t751, 3 folds.

Final Pot: t375
 
Tammy

Tammy

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First of all, that was a horrid call by me in the first hand. I don't know what came over me. My only excuse was that aliens landed and briefly took over my brain function. :D

As for the second hand...well, I'm getting the HH to see what I had. But if I remember correctly...good fold. ;)
 
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Tammy

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Ok, I'm not telling until some other people give feedback. :)
 
M

Mvemjsunpx

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I don't see why you wouldn't call here.

She only has 5 bb's left at a short-handed table, she could be shoving with almost anything.
You have a good chance at busting someone at a final table while only risking less than 1/5 of your stack, so why not?
 
J

jeffred1111

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I don't dislike a call, but we must realize that we're very often in a coinflip situation: villain has overcards to us around 95% of the time when he doesn't have a smaller pp, wich is well in his range, but we are clearly ahead 38% of the time, while being dominated around 60% of the time (villain can also have 77).

If we evaluate the chances of pp at 20% in this spot and of at least one overcard at 75%, we win 7.6 times while losing 12 times in pp vs pp, and win 45 and lose 30 (I have given us approx 60/40 odds of winning pp vs overcard(s) since hands such as K6 or A3 are likely). So we are about 52:42 winner in my scenario (where I don't account for sets, but we are as likely as villain to flop one, so it is pretty much immaterial). Marginal, since we don't have good pot odds and zero implied odds. The risks far outweighs the benefits here, especially since villain is said to be a "maniac": she'll put herself in a worse situation sooner or later. Had it been 99 or TT, I probably don't ask any question and call since we have taken a lot of outs from villain's range and we're ahead more often in pp vs pp.
 
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Effexor

Effexor

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I call this, I'll take a flip with little risk to my stack.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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First of all, that was a horrid call by me in the first hand. I don't know what came over me. My only excuse was that aliens landed and briefly took over my brain function. :D

I seem to recall Chuck raising often just prior to that so that's probably part of it.


I don't know if I've ever been at a table with JQ, so I don't know if she's generally a maniac. She may have been taking advantage of fake tilt; lose a big hand and get short stacked, get a decent hand right after and push hoping everyone just thinks she's tilting.

I think 77 is a good hand for pushing as a short stack, but not as good calling a short stack push. Still, with your stack I probably call and probably shouldn't have done so.


Edit: on second thought, you've got players behind you, who might wake up with bigger hands and put you in a tough spot. Fold, and let them decide whether or not to take her on.
 
J

jeffred1111

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Edit: on second thought, you've got players behind you, who might wake up with bigger hands and put you in a tough spot. Fold, and let them decide whether or not to take her on.

Exactly, why defend THEIR blinds ? I feel that you need a much stronger hand to play sheriff and try to bust out someone than to jus defend your blind or call an all-in from a blind player. Someone could wake up with a hand after you call or try to isolate and your equity drops down a lot: we're in deep doodoo if MP has something like KJ and one of the blinds calls our isolation raise with AQ since both our opponents have 12 outs combined plus flushes and straights.
 
jayneseo

jayneseo

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She's a maniac, MANIAC on the floor :elefant: :dancing2:

I'd probably fold because JQ scares me :D
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

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I don't see why you wouldn't call here.

She only has 5 bb's left at a short-handed table, she could be shoving with almost anything.
You have a good chance at busting someone at a final table while only risking less than 1/5 of your stack, so why not?

You need a read on the BB and SB, too. In hindsight, they are likely to fold if you call, but can you count on this? Whether to call or not seems to be a coin flip to a coin flip, but I think I would call this.
 
B

bhanacik

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I'm calling in this situation most of the time. You have to accumulate chips to win and this is a prime opportunity.

There is a good % (I'd say 30%) that you'll see J-2 in this situation.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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While there's nothing wrong with calling (it might be the better option), I decided to fold with the thinking that my small pot poker was doing me fine, and that I didn't want to take what was most likely a race. Though in retrospect, it was for a tiny proportion of my stack...

Tammy's a smart player, and while there was a good possibility of her pushing with trash here on the very next hand, she knows that I know this, and she could be pushing with a very strong hand as well. Either way, I think it's a race most of the time, a 70/30 (vs something like A6), or an 80/20 (vs something like 88+).

Out of curiosity, what did you have here, Tammy?
 
Tammy

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While there's nothing wrong with calling (it might be the better option), I decided to fold with the thinking that my small pot poker was doing me fine, and that I didn't want to take what was most likely a race. Though in retrospect, it was for a tiny proportion of my stack...

Tammy's a smart player, and while there was a good possibility of her pushing with trash here on the very next hand, she knows that I know this, and she could be pushing with a very strong hand as well. Either way, I think it's a race most of the time, a 70/30 (vs something like A6), or an 80/20 (vs something like 88+).

Out of curiosity, what did you have here, Tammy?
I don't think I'm risking my stack (small stack or not) with trash ever. At this point I'm in trouble, and although I probably should be pushing any two, I just could never bring myself to risk it w/ garbage. Chuck is way too smart and savvy to fall for the ol' "false tilt" in any case, so it's just not worth the risk, IMO.

In this case, it would have been a race, as I had AJ soooooted. I pushed to (hopefully) pick-up the blinds, because I really don't want to get to showdown with that, but if I do, I like my chances as the shortstack. Oh, and simply calling/raising with that size stack would be ludicrous of course. So yeah, I feel pushing was my only option.*

*Note to readers...it's 6am here...I've only just finished my coffee..sorry for the waffling...:p
 
A

alan1983

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Id call here.

Were extremely rarely behind, sometimes ahead, and most of the time flipping, with us slight favourites and getting good odds with the dead blinds money.

Unless blinds have been active, i call this.



Its a small percentage of our stack,
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Chuck is way too smart and savvy to fall for the ol' "false tilt" in any case, so it's just not worth the risk, IMO.


But if you know that, then you can push with any 2 cards because he knows that you know that he wouldn't fall for "false tilt". :D
 
Tammy

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But if you know that, then you can push with any 2 cards because he knows that you know that he wouldn't fall for "false tilt". :D
What I mean is, it's too dangerous to try that ploy against a seasoned player like Chuck (or any of our CC gang). If I try pushing with rags, and he thinks I'm trying to be cute, I'm done for.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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What I mean is, it's too dangerous to try that ploy against a seasoned player like Chuck (or any of our CC gang). If I try pushing with rags, and he thinks I'm trying to be cute, I'm done for.

Aww, I think you're cute, even without trying.

:)

And, I guess what I'm implying is 3rd or 4th level thinking against opponents that are familiar with your play. Not that I have any experience with that.
 
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Tammy

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Aww, I think you're cute, even without trying.

:)

And, I guess what I'm implying is 3rd or 4th level thinking against opponents that are familiar with your play. Not that I have any experience with that.
OMG. Are you patronizing me? :p Ah well, I'll let you get away with it...just this once...;) :D
 
NineLions

NineLions

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OMG. Are you patronizing me? :p Ah well, I'll let you get away with it...just this once...;) :D

No, no, I'm flirting with you, can't you tell? :D


Ah well, my wife has always agreed that I'm pretty bad at that. She tried to train me but I'm pretty dense when it comes to such things. :D :p Good thing I'm already married since I'm pretty untrainable in this area, it seems.



(I hope the poker part of this thread is already done ..... :))
 
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