77 and getting shortstacked

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Middle of a $3000 GP rebuy, you're dealt 77.
You have been playing tight aggressive, but the last hand you made a weak call on with KQ an UTG min-raiser. (a LP re-raiser put UTG all in, and you had to fold - they both showed AK) The table seems like the average table at this stage (just after the first break) of an MTT. Fairly tight, but still donkish enough to call/push all in with weaker hands, but they have been somewhat respecting your raises.
With 110 short of 4K and blinds at 200/400 (you've got just short of 10 BBs), and in middle position, everyone has folded to you.
Another thing to keep in mind is that BB iis the only player more shortstacked than you (no reads). Everyone else at the table has 5K and up.
What would you do? Why?
 

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titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
In every tournament there is a hand where you have to take a stand and fight or go home. I think this is it for you.

A standard raise of 3BB will be 1/4 your stack. You don't hit and fold and you get the blinds coming you are now down to 2k quickly and extremely short stacked. Not a move I would want to try.

You can bomb all in and hope for no callers or at best 1. You win the blinds and can see another 8 hands and hope for another good one. The hard part is at best you are at 50/50 and worse they will have an overpair (arrrgghhh!) to a caller if the table is solid.

I know I will get flack for this but I would limp and hope someone calls and then someone raises. I would then do my all-in. You may get that extra money and the blinds that you are looking for if every folds. You still have enough to hopefully narrow it down to heads up if you get a caller. Worse case you get to see the flop cheap and can make your move after the flop or throw it if you don't hit and bomb with your next decent hand.
 
Effexor

Effexor

Cardschat Elite
I'd try and limp in. I think small pp's are losing hands unless you hit the set.

I think you are an excellent poker player, but I didn't like they way you did play this one. It felt to me like you were fed up with the idiotic plays at that table. Is that a good read on the situation ?
 
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xdmanx007

Legend
Couple points NOT DESPERATION time yet. YOU ARE NOT DESPERATE YET not with the blind structure at Titan.

You no limp! Rraise it up and depending on his actual stack SIZE consider wether or not you will be stuck calling his allin if he reraises, if you would be, just raise it enough to put him in from the start.

Knock out shots swing the numbers a little to the loose side.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
I agree with xd's comment about not yet being in shortstacked enough to be desperate yet. But thats why I pushed - I never want to wait until i'm at that stage.
If i raise here, it's putting nearly half my stack in the middle and i won't have enough to push someone off of a middle pair if they call me.
Though some may say that 'the only hands that are going to call you are ones that have you beat' - not necessarily
I'm betting big enough that i should push out 88, 99, maybe TT, KQ,AQ,AJ,AT etc. from the big stacks - they're not willing to risk half their stack with those kinds of hands PF, especially with the push coming from a tight aggressive player like me.
I didn't push based on the value of my 77 (obv.) but because you have to apply pressure in mtts - especially with a shortstack in the blinds.
I won't argue with a fold here though - what i don't like though is a raise - i believe its all or nothing here.

effexor: no i wasn't fed up with the play - as was mentioned I still had a decent stack, but i my line is drawn at 10 BBs for a push. I don't like going shorter stacked then that.
Though you are right...small pps are losing hands long term and i probably should have folded this.

As for the results, everyone folded except the BB (shortstack) who called all in with 99.
It held, and i was left shortstacked, and busted the next hand with a KQ all in.
You no limp! Rraise it up and depending on his actual stack SIZE consider wether or not you will be stuck calling his allin if he reraises, if you would be, just raise it enough to put him in from the start.
My raise would leave me pot-committed, and a raise would basically put him in anyways, so I think putting the pressure on him with a push was best. Though raising gives me a chance to get away from the hand, it would also leave me shortstacked if he reraised me, so i'd have to call anyways.
 
spore

spore

Rock Star
I probably would've folded here. Normally I'd just like to limp in with PP below TT, but limping in is not really an option with your stack (unless you can get in for just the size of the BB). I'd much rather make a stand with a AK->AT type of hand where you're more likely to be a 60/40 favorite.
 
J

jeffy324

Rising Star
i would agree with chuckTs play here and go all-in. If you raise a little, or just limp in, if the flop has high cards, you'll have no idea if your 77 is any good. you could fold and wait for a better hand, but all depends on your sytle of play. throw in the chips and hope for a coin flip, depends on how ballsy you are.
 
S

Styrofoam

Visionary
I definately push here now that i think about it. If someone has a higher PP than you do here, then so be-it, but you're almost certain to be a favorite here (even a 55-45% is still a favorite). Best case scenario someone with 22-66 calls in attempt to catch you with 2 overs and bust you. Either way, you may not have a chance for a better chance. You have to take risks when you're shortstacked.... you have to push here....worst case scenario you get called by a higher PP. Either way, you need chips to survive.
 
D

Dingodaddy23

Guest
definately push. you have fold equity. if you get called and see an ugly flop and have to fold you sacrafice your fold equity from this point out.
 
beardyian

beardyian

Scary Clown
Awards
2
I agree its not desparation time - but why would wait until you are desparate?

Ok its not a brilliant pair but you only have 2 players after you and then the blinds - one of which you say is shorter stacked than you (therefore more desparate)

Time to put pressure on him - All In

With both blinds due a small raise could damage you if, more than likely called by BB.

A raise would give someone a chance of going over the top either trying to bluff you off or put doubt in you mind.

With your chips out there the other players have to decide if they want to possibly lose half their stacks and making BB decide on his tourney life.

Make them decide, you done your thinking its up to them now.

After all if everyone folds - you now have a few extra chips to pay your blinds and the time for a better hand to show.

:D

Enjoy and Peace

IanT
 
X

xdmanx007

Legend
ChuckTs said:
I agree with xd's comment about not yet being in shortstacked enough to be desperate yet. But thats why I pushed - I never want to wait until i'm at that stage.
If i raise here, it's putting nearly half my stack in the middle and i won't have enough to push someone off of a middle pair if they call me.
Though some may say that 'the only hands that are going to call you are ones that have you beat' - not necessarily
I'm betting big enough that i should push out 88, 99, maybe TT, KQ,AQ,AJ,AT etc. from the big stacks - they're not willing to risk half their stack with those kinds of hands PF, especially with the push coming from a tight aggressive player like me.
I didn't push based on the value of my 77 (obv.) but because you have to apply pressure in mtts - especially with a shortstack in the blinds.
I won't argue with a fold here though - what i don't like though is a raise - i believe its all or nothing here.

effexor: no i wasn't fed up with the play - as was mentioned I still had a decent stack, but i my line is drawn at 10 BBs for a push. I don't like going shorter stacked then that.
Though you are right...small pps are losing hands long term and i probably should have folded this.

As for the results, everyone folded except the BB (shortstack) who called all in with 99.
It held, and i was left shortstacked, and busted the next hand with a KQ all in.

My raise would leave me pot-committed, and a raise would basically put him in anyways, so I think putting the pressure on him with a push was best. Though raising gives me a chance to get away from the hand, it would also leave me shortstacked if he reraised me, so i'd have to call anyways.
Well comes a time when thins need to go your way unfortunately.

I do have a question to ponder that I have been thinking about lately. In a freezeout style tournament. Is there really such a thing as being "pot commited" against a player who has you covered?
 
HoldemChamp

HoldemChamp

Rock Star
You need to push hard with the size of chip stack you have. Too many times I have seen people call because I didn't push hard enough. 5x the BB raise is pretty hefty and will knock out most of the more marginal hands at the table. Which is probably did. You just got unlucky and ran into a better pair.

I would say you did that right thing. Just at the wrong time. Luck of the draw.
 
T

tranqxility

Enthusiast
I push. No questions about it. I don't want to be shortstacked and I want to give my self a shot to compete.

Actually, I'd probably flip a coin. Heads I push, tails I limp in and hope for a stronger hand really soon to push with.
 
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mufc112

Guest
i may just limp in or maybe even make a little raise probably the minimum so that would be 800 and hope to hit the trips and doulbe up on the player
 
buckster436

buckster436

Cardschat Hall of Famer - RIP Buck
Awards
2
I`d probally raise about Half his chips and then go from there,if he goes allin i would call and leave it up to the poker gods,, you gotta take some chances or you`ll eventually get blinded out>>>>>>>>>>>>> buck:cool:
 
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mec1331

Guest
I would raise it up 2 times the big blind and see what the big blind does with this. If he re-raises you right away you have to assume that he has a pretty strong hand. If he folds you are gonna get the blinds and if he calls you have to try and figure out what he might be calling with and see how the flop looks for you. If he bets into you on the flop and there are 3 overcards or even 2 it might be a good decision to fold, but this all depends on your read of the guy. If you go all in right away there is a chance the guy will call with 2 overcards, which would be close to a coin toss, or a higher pair where you are at an extreme disadvantage.
 
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