$50 NLHE MTT: Jam with Ts??

Alucard

Alucard

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Early-mid stages of a tourney. Still on late reg.
Most players are kind of loose passive. overcalls a lot.

UTG with a 10/11BB stack open jams. He has been tightish so far. Haven't seen him play a lot
UTG+2 just calls with a 35BB ish stack. He seems tight as well but did some weird plays. One noticable hand he limped 43s UTG.

We have Ts on BB with around a 35/40BB stack as well. Do we 3bet jam this?
I feel like at best we are flipping with 2 overs. so not so happy about it. UTG+2 will probably overcall if I jam. I don't think calling is good with that stack size
 
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yoejslattery

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This is a fold for me. I just like to pick better spots in MTTs.
However, if the UTG+2 will really call you then it might make more sense if you think he is getting out of line. You really only need to beat him in order to come out ahead in this situation.
 
Jon Poker

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I think TT is too strong to fold in this situation - I find AK and QQ+ generally isolating instead of flatting the all in. Yeah sometimes you are going to run into a bigger hand and sometimes you are still going to lose the flip but that's ok - if you got your chips in good preflop that's the most you can ask for. I ship it here, as I said in the beginning, 10s are just too strong to fold here in the middle stages. You gotta win flips to run deep - so get in there when you got the best of it!
 
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I would over bet jam in that spot.
 
TheDude6622

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Early-mid stages of a tourney. Still on late reg.
Most players are kind of loose passive. overcalls a lot.

UTG with a 10/11BB stack open jams. He has been tightish so far. Haven't seen him play a lot
UTG+2 just calls with a 35BB ish stack. He seems tight as well but did some weird plays. One noticable hand he limped 43s UTG.

We have Ts on BB with around a 35/40BB stack as well. Do we 3bet jam this?
I feel like at best we are flipping with 2 overs. so not so happy about it. UTG+2 will probably overcall if I jam. I don't think calling is good with that stack size

Either fold or shove is fine in this spot. If you see the small stack is super tight, they could have any pair or any ace hand. You beat a lot of the one who's calling, so trying to isolate is always good. If you get the worse hand to call your shove, that's always a plus.

This is coming from someone that's trying to build a stack early on, in the right spot. And this seems like a pretty good spot to do so.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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My instinct is to re-shove here every time. however, my instincts tend to be somewhat aggro and reckless....so I consulted my tools.

when I look at our calling range for an 11bb shove from UTG according to snapshove we should be calling with 10.7% of hands which includes: 66+ A9s+, ATo+, KJs+, KQo.

in general, the population tends to shove a little tighter than they should, but even if we tighten his range a little bit then I would probably still want to call with something like 88+ and AJ+ and KQs.

now the interesting thing comes from the overcaller. should this make us more or less interested in shoving? I think this is in general going to make us more interested in shoving and the exceptions could be REALLY nitty player stats or heavy ICM implications (such as a final table where the flatter and myself are both the big stacks at the table).

if the caller is not a huge nit (you described him as not terribly nitty) and if we are not in a weird ICM spot (during the re entry period ICM is about as low as it ever gets in a tourney) then I think this is a great ISO jam.

yes....we are probably going to lose at least 50% of the time when we are called....but we are rewarded by having great pot odds. and we have fold equity. he should have folds some frequency and so if we can succeed in making him fold even 1/4 of the time then we are now in a beautiful situation of either crushing or flipping vs the range of UTG with better than 2:1 pot odds.
 
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popstani

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This is tough question, sometimes is jam, sometimes is a call, sometimes fold. With Ts you will probably lose more times than you will win. For me it depends on the moment. If you lose your wrong, if you win you are right. That kind of question this is
 
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really tough spot.


according to your read About UTG+2 he could do this with a Monster like AA/KK to get more caller or he might make another weird call with something like AT/KQ


like jacki said, we are ahead of UTGs range, but reshoving a 35bb stack with TT into an uncertain UTG+2 range is worrying me. If he calls, our best chances are a flip and if we lose we are out of the Tournament.


I would base my decision on 2 Points:
1) what stats does he have on my HUD and accoring to those stats, what are the chances that he folds to our reshove, because we don't want him to call and folding and Winning vs UTG almost doubles our stack.
2) do I care About the 50$ buy-in or is it an average buy-in for me. this might Sound stupid, but 50$ would be a huge buy-in for me and mincashing for 100$ would be a nice boost to my bankroll. therefor I might find a tight fold here.
 
Jon Poker

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like jacki said, we are ahead of UTGs range, but reshoving a 35bb stack with TT into an uncertain UTG+2 range is worrying me. If he calls, our best chances are a flip and if we lose we are out of the Tournament.

Not to be beating a dead horse - but again going back to my original statement - it is necessary in MTTs to win a few flips to run deep. You cannot avoid these spots and if you do you are playing way too passive and missing out on some value along the way. Why would we flat 11BBs - 25-30% of our stack - just to possibly fold? What happens when the board comes J 9 4 and the other stack shoves? It puts us in a gross spot for our tournament life and we either make the crying call or we fold and possibly donate a third of our stack. 10s vs the UTG+2 calling range is an easy shove - you have the best hand a good portion of the time and if you are flipping (and alot of times you will be) then at least you have the good side to the odds on the flip. These are spots no one loves but making the correct plays will lead to better long term results. If we lose we have to be ok with that because we made the right move - that's why we have a bankroll and practice good management.


Now - sheer curiosity. Since at least one player called the all in - you got to see their hands. What did they both have?
 
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Not to be beating a dead horse - but again going back to my original statement - it is necessary in MTTs to win a few flips to run deep. You cannot avoid these spots and if you do you are playing way too passive and missing out on some value along the way. Why would we flat 11BBs - 25-30% of our stack - just to possibly fold? What happens when the board comes J 9 4 and the other stack shoves? It puts us in a gross spot for our tournament life and we either make the crying call or we fold and possibly donate a third of our stack. 10s vs the UTG+2 calling range is an easy shove - you have the best hand a good portion of the time and if you are flipping (and alot of times you will be) then at least you have the good side to the odds on the flip. These are spots no one loves but making the correct plays will lead to better long term results. If we lose we have to be ok with that because we made the right move - that's why we have a bankroll and practice good management.


Now - sheer curiosity. Since at least one player called the all in - you got to see their hands. What did they both have?


you are absolutly right, you have to take risks to win/run Deep in tournaments.
but that doesn't mean you have to shove with every stack size.


and it is not About if we call or reshove here, calling is not an Option. it's About shoving or folding because it's hard to tell if the UTG+2 call is weak or nutted and with a 35-40bb stack I think it's not easy to say if a call is the Right Play.
 
Jon Poker

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you are absolutly right, you have to take risks to win/run Deep in tournaments.
but that doesn't mean you have to shove with every stack size.


and it is not About if we call or reshove here, calling is not an Option. it's About shoving or folding because it's hard to tell if the UTG+2 call is weak or nutted and with a 35-40bb stack I think it's not easy to say if a call is the Right Play.

I agree with this 100%. Calling is never what we should do here - we either push or fold. Not everyone is going to take the same line by far so some will be conservative and find the fold, others will see this as "pretty standard" and just ship it. To each their own. I guess I am on team ship it lol but yeah, certainly player dependent and different opponents will also influence your decisions as well.
 
theANMATOR

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I played a similar hand - except I was in Villian 2s spot - and I was on the bttn rather UTG+2.
In the position I was in - roughly similar stacks all around - I flatted pocket Ks and BB shoved. UTG had A/8 s (I think) and BB had 8s (?) Can't remember exactly - but I ended up calling and busted out the two players.

Although we had a discussion on this hand - there wasn't a consensus about if I should have called or shoved to isolate. Thinking about this hand - relating it to the hand I played - I'd probably also shove in this spot with the pocket Ten's, thinking UTG+2 has 8s - Js or A/9+. I highly doubt he'd be holding a larger pocket pair - and only flat in that spot - unless it was Aces - -
 
Jacki Burkhart

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What did you use? I'll do some icmicer later


I used SnapShove and some tourney specific 30bb squeeze charts that are based on Pio solver.

To be clear: none of these tools address this exact situation. I find the closest scenario in my tools then use my knowledge of poker theory to do my best to adjust to the real situation. It’s not an exact science. But I would shove. Then either have 57bb, 82bb or rebuy if I lose.
 
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I would've 3bet jammed that. As you said yourself, he's been playing tight a bit but he has been playing strangely like limping utg with 43s. He doesn't exactly seem like a thinking player so I doubt he's hoping to induce by simply calling with Aces or any premiums for that matter. At best it feels like 55-99s.
The safer and lower variance route would be to fold of course if we're not 100% sure that he's a thinking player.
 
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