$.50 NLHE MTT: Getting value from a flopped flush

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tzuriel

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Middle of the same tournament and I had been fairly active. nothing crazy but I had played a few hands. I think I read on several of the comments on my other posted hands that I should bet for value here. Was that correct? Or since I am in the BB do I check this flop and see if one of the limpers takes a shot? Didn't think this flop hit anyone's range too hard but there could have been JT, QT, KT, A3, A4. Is a check better to let them catch up?

What do you think?


NL Holdem $0.50+$0.05 (1500.00BB)
EP ($35370)
MP ($23725)
HJ ($27830)
CO ($24940)
BTN ($32575)
SB ($34550)
HERO ($37430)
UTG ($23130)

Dealt to Hero: 7 Q

UTG Folds, EP Folds, MP Folds, HJ Calls $1500, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Calls $750, HERO Checks

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.59 effective]
Flop ($5700): 3 4 T
SB Checks, HERO Bets $2850 (Rem. Stack: $32930), HJ Folds, SB Folds

HERO wins: $5700
 
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eetenor

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Middle of the same tournament and I had been fairly active. nothing crazy but I had played a few hands. I think I read on several of the comments on my other posted hands that I should bet for value here. Was that correct? Or since I am in the BB do I check this flop and see if one of the limpers takes a shot? Didn't think this flop hit anyone's range too hard but there could have been JT, QT, KT, A3, A4. Is a check better to let them catch up?

What do you think?



NL Holdem $0.50+$0.05 (1500.00BB)
EP ($35370)
MP ($23725)
HJ ($27830)
CO ($24940)
BTN ($32575)
SB ($34550)
HERO ($37430)
UTG ($23130)

Dealt to Hero: 7 Q

UTG Folds, EP Folds, MP Folds, HJ Calls $1500, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Calls $750, HERO Checks

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.59 effective]
Flop ($5700): 3 4 T
SB Checks, HERO Bets $2850 (Rem. Stack: $32930), HJ Folds, SB Folds

HERO wins: $5700


Thank you for posting.

It would be better to lead on a board higher than Txx as there are very few strong hands that are non flush draw hands that would continue here.

So yes- the check let them catch up or even let them bluff if they do bluff option is best. By leading there are very few bluff raises as again we would not be leading very many weak tens no flush draw- it would be mostly tens with a flush draw and many players weak enough to limp the HJ would not find a bluff raise there.

We will miss some value from limped AX Kx one spade but the HJ would likely min raise pre AX KX hands so the number of those hand combos is low.


Hope this helps
:):)
 
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300HPGOD

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In these spots pre flop you have to watch out for the BB here since you limp calling in the SB opens up the door for aggressive BB players here to raise and put pressure on you and the initial limper. If the BB is not aggro then I think it is fine pre flop here to get in cheaply but if there is any real possibility of getting raised then you might be giving away chips by just calling and then most likely folding to a raise.

On the flop I am fine with either checking or betting but I think I prefer betting in this specific spot and the sizing you make is good imo. Pre flop was all limps so I dont think anyone has anything good but there could be easily an Ax with Ace of spades that will call a bet from you. Kx with King of spades might even call. Checking here would let those hands draw for free against you and you will have a harder time folding later in this hand than usual since you will have the flush. You could even be up against a small set here where if you checked and they bet and you raised over they might start putting the pieces together compared to if you bet and then they raised you. From there villain would have a harder time folding after they were the one to raise you. Lastly, if they dont have anything then they dont and you wouldnt get anything anyway. Many hands where we flop the world I like checking but to me Q high flush is not flopping the world. Plenty of SpadeX hands that will call our bet but if we check and then a blank comes on the turn they will fold and you lose a street of value.
 
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tzuriel

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In these spots pre flop you have to watch out for the BB here since you limp calling in the SB opens up the door for aggressive BB players here to raise and put pressure on you and the initial limper.

I was the BB here. I checked and flopped the flush.
 
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fundiver199

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I think, you played the hand perfectly fine. This is definitely not the time to slowplay, since a lot of turn cards are very bad for you. They either give someone else the best hand or they kill your action. Like another spade where now you lose to A or K of spades, and pretty much no hand worse than yours is going to pay. Or a board pair where now you lose to a boat. If neither opponent has anything, they are not going to play a big pot, just because you check the flop. Betting with the best hand and taking the pot down is part of poker. It can not be avoided, and its never a bad outcome. After all you won the hand.
 
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tzuriel

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I think, you played the hand perfectly fine. This is definitely not the time to slowplay, since a lot of turn cards are very bad for you. They either give someone else the best hand or they kill your action. Like another spade where now you lose to A or K of spades, and pretty much no hand worse than yours is going to pay. Or a board pair where now you lose to a boat. If neither opponent has anything, they are not going to play a big pot, just because you check the flop. Betting with the best hand and taking the pot down is part of poker. It can not be avoided, and its never a bad outcome. After all you won the hand.

Thanks!
 
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Badday94

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I completely agree with the last post. You played it perfectly. Your 2 bet was good here. I'm not a fan of playing passively to trap them. I've lost so many times doing so, trying to sqeeze as much chips as possible. I've learned that winning the pot is the most important thing and comes first, not the size of the pot. Win while you are ahead. If you had ace high flush, you definitely check there since you have the best possible hand. With queen high flush you did the right thing. Good luck
 
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tzuriel

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I completely agree with the last post. You played it perfectly. Your 2 bet was good here. I'm not a fan of playing passively to trap them. I've lost so many times doing so, trying to sqeeze as much chips as possible. I've learned that winning the pot is the most important thing and comes first, not the size of the pot. Win while you are ahead. If you had ace high flush, you definitely check there since you have the best possible hand. With queen high flush you did the right thing. Good luck


Thanks!
 
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fundiver199

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I completely agree with the last post. You played it perfectly. Your 2 bet was good here. I'm not a fan of playing passively to trap them. I've lost so many times doing so, trying to sqeeze as much chips as possible. I've learned that winning the pot is the most important thing and comes first, not the size of the pot. Win while you are ahead. If you had ace high flush, you definitely check there since you have the best possible hand. With queen high flush you did the right thing. Good luck

Just to make it clear and avoid misunderstanding, Heros flop bet is not a "protection bet". Hero is betting for value, and those hands, that have significant equity, are not going to fold for a half pot bet. So if someone have the A of spade, and another spade comes on the turn, Hero is still going to lose the pot. But Hero get more value, when another spade dont come.

Also some might look at this and think "why are we leading out, why are we not checking to the perflop raiser". But this was a limped pot, so there was no preflop raiser. HJ limped into the pot, and when he is taking this passive approach preflop, its not particularly likely, he is going to bet the flop and build the pot for us.

Even in limped pots it can be fine to "trap" sometimes, but I would like going for a check-raise more, if Hero was small blind, so that he had two players left to act behind him rather than just one. In this situation Hero was in the middle, one guy had already checked, and then our absolute default should always be to bet with our strong hands.

This time Hero failed to get action, but this is where, we need to stop being so results oriented. There are plenty of hands, that will pay a bet here, like A of spades, K of spades, J of spades, 9 of spades, any T, and if they are bad any spade, any pair, any straightdraw. This particular time they just happened to both have nothing, and it is, what it is.
 
theANMATOR

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OK I guess I will be the dissenting opinion here along with eet above.

You check because you have a made hand. While it might be true you are giving your opponents a chance to catch another spade, and possibly beat you with a bigger flush, there are only 2 cards that can do that.
Much more likely your opponents have other cards so giving them an opportunity to bluff is more valuable. Maybe an Ace or a King comes off and you get one of the passive limpers to put in 1/3 pot. You can min raise - and they may think you are bluffing.

Second reason - you disguise your hand so on the turn/river if something pops up for the opponents to bet at - you can just call them down, possibly give a small re-raise on the river to get even a little more value.

If we are dead set on betting out here and taking down the pot instantly, 2 whole bigs, I say leading for a min-bet is the best approach. It gives our opponents a great price to come along to see a turn/river.
 
theANMATOR

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I had nearly this exact hand last night already ITM 3 players involved were all top 20 in chip count out of 980 runners about 150 still remain.

UTG+1 min-raise opens
MP flats
I'm in bb with Q/8 suited hearts, so I just complete.

Flop is all low hearts, something like 752.
UTG+1 checks, MP checks - and I check behind.

Turn is King of spades.
UTG+1 min-bets out here. MP folds and I call.

River is off suit Q.
UTG+1 again min-bets out - and I click it back min-raising.
He tanks for his allotted 15 seconds and decided to call with his A/Q no heart hand.

I'm certain if he had the Ace of hearts I could have gotten a lot more chips from him because he would have led on the flop and probably turn a lot bigger, likewise if the turn or river hit with another heart - the guy would have let me know with his betting that he had either the Ace or King of hearts and I could have gotten away on the river.

I scoop a nice 15bb pot which is one of the hands that propelled me to a 2nd place finish in this tourney.
This is why we check the made flush on the flop, in my very rookie opinion. ;)
 
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