$.50 NLHE MTT: C-betting when there's an overcard to your TT

[tzuriel]

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

Another hand from that S&G. I was the chip leader here as well and woke up with TT in EP and min raised. I wanted to get value from this hand since good pocket pairs don't happen often. I get out flopped but C-bet anyways after he checked. Was that a mistake? I didn't get 3bet PF and thought he might be calling with a smaller pair or some suited connector that he didn't want to get 4bet with. Didn't think he would flat with AQ, AK or any bigger pair than TT. He shoves 5 more BB when I raise and I guess that should have been my clue to fold. It was hard for me to lay this down but that was probably the right thing in retrospect. When a K comes on the flop after a flat PF and you're holding TT, it's probably not a candidate for c-betting. Really not sure though.

Would you have shoved TT PF here or just raised to try and get value? I think I played it right PF but really screwed the pooch on the flop with a Cbet and a shove.

NL Holdem $0.50+$0.05 (8000.00BB)
BTN ($51405)
SB ($71625)
BB ($88930)
HERO ($234616)
HJ ($47280)
CO ($110520)

Dealt to Hero: T♦ T♠

HERO Raises To $16800, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $8000

Hero SPR on Flop: [1.77 effective]
Flop ($40800): Q♥ 3♣ K♥
BB Checks, HERO Bets $33376 (Rem. Stack: $184440), BB Raises To $72130 (allin), HERO Calls $38754 (Rem. Stack: $145686)

Turn ($185060): Q♥ 3♣ K♥ 5♥

River ($185060): Q♥ 3♣ K♥ 5♥ A♦

Spoiler

BB shows: 7♠ K♦

BB wins: $185060

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Noone else had more than 13BB, and you had everyone well covered, so for me this is a perfect situation to apply a ton of ICM-pressure to the entire table by open jamming. Min-raising is not terrible, but without running it through ICMizer I am pretty sure, that open jamming will allow you to play more hands and is therefore a more profitable strategy. Its also way easier and protects you from making costly mistakes after the flop.

Flop
This was a very bad board for TT, and especially against someone, who only started with 11BB, you should be checking back that flop 100% of the time and try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. You say, you want to get value, but what worse hands is he going to call with, especially when you go to a size, that essentially commits him to the pot? You are just folding out all the hands, you beat, and getting jammed on by hands, that either beat you or have close to 50% equity with some kind of good draw. This almost looks like entitlement tilt to be honest with you. You had a great hand preflop, you slowplayed it by only min-raising, and then you got this awfull flop. Just accept, what happened, and move on to the next hand.

 

[tzuriel]

Preflop
Noone else had more than 13BB, and you had everyone well covered, so for me this is a perfect situation to apply a ton of ICM-pressure to the entire table by open jamming. Min-raising is not terrible, but without running it through ICMizer I am pretty sure, that open jamming will allow you to play more hands and is therefore a more profitable strategy.

Flop
This was a very bad board for TT, and especially against someone, who only started with 11BB, you should be checking back that flop 100% of the time and try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. You say, you want to get value, but what worse hands is he going to call with, especially when you go to a size, that essentially commits him to the pot? You are just folding out all the hands, you beat, and getting jammed on by hands, that either beat you or have close to 50% equity with some kind of good draw. This almost looks like entitlement tilt to be honest with you. You had a great hand preflop, you slowplayed it by only min-raising, and then you got this awfull flop. Just accept, what happened, and move on to the next hand.

I meant I wanted to get value from this hand by not shoving PF so as to get a caller to my min-raise but I agree that I really botched it on the flop. It was pretty clear to me even in game that he probably had some lousy Kx. I neglected to go with my read and made a costly error. Entitlement tilt sounds pretty accurate. Although it's probably foolishness more than anything!

Thanks for posting fundiver. I appreciate your insight, as always.

 

[fundiver199]

Pairs up to TT play poorly postflop, when the SPR is low, and they benefit greatly from denying equity to hands with one or two overcards like the one, your opponent had. So if you are going to use a mixed strategy, where you open jam some hands and min-raise others, I would definitely put pairs up to TT in my jamming range. The min-raising range will then then be QQ+, AK, maybe AQ/JJ and some weak hands, which you fold if jammed on. Also if you open jam TT, you will sometimes get called by worse, especially in a penny tournament like this, and then you get max value that way. A lot of players at these stakes have a hard time folding any pair and sometimes also any ace preflop. So you will sometimes get it in against hands like 55 or A8 offsuit, which you are way ahead of.

 

[300HPGOD]

I agree with fundiver that this should be a jam as in these situations you should be playing your hands with the idea of what the effective stacks would be in the hand. I dont think we would be open raising 1010 and then folding to a jam against any of these stacks outside of the CO so I like jamming as well pre. As played when we min raise and the BB only calls on their stack I either think bad player, monster hand, or some hand that they know they should fold but just cant cause it looks so good with the odds (suited connector 98+ or Ax suited). I think they should be jamming or folding all the time here so their call would start the wheels rolling in my head.

On the flop you cant bet this large on this flop with your holding against a player that is on the stack they are on. If they dont fold then you are pot committed so it is the same as if you jammed the flop when there were two overcards. Checking is probably the best play although I dont hate making a bluff blocker bet here of sorts that also is an equity protection bet. However I am making the bet tiny to make it look like I am crying for a call. If villain does anything other than fold to my bet I would be done with it. My sizing if I were to bet on the flop would be 12k or 13k. Villains on this stack cant float cause it costs them too much. They would have to define their hand and even when they call there I would know Im beat. I do feel if we check here sometimes we are getting jammed on by any two cards by villain but that is also villain dependent. Small bet here makes the hand defined now and since I wouldnt put them on any pocket pair after they only called pre flop we can easily find out and cheaply with 100% assurance of whether 1010 is good or not.

 

[Badday94]

Very bad flop fir your pocket 10's. I understand also why you cbet the flop, because you are heads up and most of the time he would miss also and just fold, but after the jam I think correct would have been a disciplined fold. A cbet also kind of seems like you just want him to fold, maybe that's why he read you and just jammed his tournament life on a king and no kicker. Maybe a bet of 60% pot would have been better and if he calls, 3 bets or jammes, you are out of that one.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Preflop: by default just play push-fold stacks this shallow. I myself play push fold only when stacks 15bb or lower, but there are some pro players who play min-raise or limp-raise with stacks as shallow as 11bb. Either way, with TT you can't really go wrong, unless you fold of course.

Flop: it's very bad for your hand, but it is really good for your range actually. You have KK, QQ, KQ, AK, KJ, while villain shouldn't have most of those hands. I would range bet 1bb on this board. Villain can't check-raise wide, because he doesn't have that many strong hands. You bet 1bb and if villain does raise, you just fold. Checking is not great either, because you can't call anything on the turn if villain bets. However, the worst thing you can do is to bet big, because if villain raises, you are losing massive pot. Also, remember, when stacks are so shallow, you don't need to bet large. Stacks will go in no matter what. If you had KK, QQ here, do you want to bet big? No, you want to bet small with all your strong hands and that should eliminate big sizing from your strategy. Bet 1bb and fold to raise.

 

[tzuriel]

Preflop: by default just play push-fold stacks this shallow. I myself play push fold only when stacks 15bb or lower, but there are some pro players who play min-raise or limp-raise with stacks as shallow as 11bb. Either way, with TT you can't really go wrong, unless you fold of course.

Flop: it's very bad for your hand, but it is really good for your range actually. You have KK, QQ, KQ, AK, KJ, while villain shouldn't have most of those hands. I would range bet 1bb on this board. Villain can't check-raise wide, because he doesn't have that many strong hands. You bet 1bb and if villain does raise, you just fold. Checking is not great either, because you can't call anything on the turn if villain bets. However, the worst thing you can do is to bet big, because if villain raises, you are losing massive pot. Also, remember, when stacks are so shallow, you don't need to bet large. Stacks will go in no matter what. If you had KK, QQ here, do you want to bet big? No, you want to bet small with all your strong hands and that should eliminate big sizing from your strategy. Bet 1bb and fold to raise.

Thank you!

 

[kkonicke]

I agree on the jam preflop. The big stack has 13 bb. No reason to min raise here.

As played, this is probably a check fold. You probably have a range advantage, but you don't have any of the board which increases his odds of hitting enough to go allin for his last 9 bb.

 

[StealTheButton]

I rarely only min raise preflop; and if you look at the other stack sizes, an opening raise of 2.5- 3.5bb is 25-50 % of most of the players stacks so a shove would have made more sense. Had there been only1 over card I would most definitely c-bet, but with the Q and the K, I would check.