$5 SnG spakkage

[jaketrevvor]

WTFH? What do I do?

Stacks: - 379peterbilt with 1500 - dontgiveup28 with 1420 - Nozema with 1460 - gary3 with 1480 - Baggira84 with 1960 - sluggard with 1500 - Frankenflops with 1500 - jaketrevvor with 1180 - jim_kapp with 1500

Blinds: 10/20
Site: pokerstars
* - Dealt to jaketrevvor:

* - Sklansky group 2
Preflop:
* - sluggard calls [20]
* - frankenflops calls [20]
* - jaketrevvor raises 120 to 140
**- 7 players fold.
* - frankenflops calls [120]
* - Total folds this street: 7
* - Potsize: 330
Flop:

* - frankenflops bets [20]
* - jaketrevvor calls [20]


Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

 

[ChuckTs]

Well I've mentioned this before, though it may not apply as much in tourneys since players don't respect their chips as much as they do in rings, but often times a minimum donk bet is really really weak.

Calling down is fine but we get no FE against 77 and similar hands (then again we get a very cheap draw in that spot). If my opponent is likely to minbet down, I'll gladly tag along and try to get a cheap showdown, but often times villain is putting out two small bets on the flop and turn, then betting significantly on the river barring some scare cards, and it becomes much harder to look him up with just ace-high.

Anyways I'm often raising this flop to about 250.

 

[OzExorcist]

I probably raise this around 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot as well - though I think I shut down after that if it gets called.

 

[c9h13no3]

I flat call here, and see what he does on the turn. If he nudges out another 20 & there are no scare cards, I pump his bet up to 120 or so. Hopefully with the raise on the turn, we can get a fold out of him, or at least get him to check to us on the riv to get a cheap showdown.

However, this bet could mean anything. It ranges from a guy "betting" his draw, or probing, hoping you'll raise him, or just a blocking bet with something like 55. But in my experiance, if you just flat call a min-bet, it usually results in another one on the turn.

 

[jaketrevvor]

c9h13no3, the trouble is I think a flat-call is so weak we open ourselves up to bluffs on the turn. Also, if he does have 2 random live cards we're giving him a chance to hit them -- and further more if we don't hit the turn it's much more dangerous to raise there as opposed to the flop as we only have 1 card to come to try and improve if we do get called.

 

[Chevren]

I probably raise this around 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot as well - though I think I shut down after that if it gets called.

I like this I've come across players like this and its a never bluff situation I'd say fire one shot at it on the flop (if the call is a typo if not fire at the turn) if you are called you are most likely beat check/fold it down.

Sometimes this type of a player will show down a decent hand but dont risk it you know you can beat them wait it out until you have a hand if you encounter resitance

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Obviously the only correct answer is to minraise.

Seriously, without specific reads to the contrary I always treat flop minbets like this as checks, so I usually make a standard raise/'c-bet' here.

 

[benevg]

Seriously, without specific reads to the contrary I always treat flop minbets like this as checks, so I usually make a standard raise/'c-bet' here.

^^^ my take too.

 

[c9h13no3]

c9h13no3, the trouble is I think a flat-call is so weak we open ourselves up to bluffs on the turn.

Players that make this kind of bet, in my experiance, aren't that smart. They're usually weak-passive calling stations who will only really bet with something 2 pair plus. They're usually not betting anymore than another min-bet on the turn, unless they really hit something.

Also, if you raise his min-bet on the flop, he'll call like 90% of the time in my experiance as well. If he's min betting a draw, or a hand that has you beat they call. And sometimes they even call with 2 random cards. I like to do my raising on the turn where draws have only 1 card to come, and newbies will think "hmmm, I've only got one card left to make my flush, I better put it down". Calling stations like to see cards, and once they've seen 4 out of 5, if they don't have a hand, they'll usually let it go. Raising on the flop isn't going to push out any hand that has you beat at this point in my experiance, just because they look SOOO weak.

And if its a good player like me, trying to act like a donkey with a "please god raise me" bet, by just calling, you give them a chance to really show you what they have by leading out on the turn. I pull this move against players who know how to play (and you can tell by how much they raise preflop). Min bets will often get raised more than checks in my experiance.

Against retarded new players like this, I try to only do serious raising with made hands, since they're usually not smart enough to fold anything on the flop. But then again, I usually play very tight in the early stages of a S&G, so maybe I'm wrong. But based on my calling station reads, I play this like I have a 2 over-card draw against a guy who won't fold until later in the hand. If you had a flush draw, he's giving you awesome pot odds to get to your flush, so I'd take it. This is a similar situation in that you have a draw, and are getting awesome pot odds to see the turn.

I agree, if this player had any sort of logic in him, raising the flop would be the best choice. But just in my experiance playing low-stakes retards, this is how I like to deal with them when I don't have a made hand early in a S&G. Given, this is a 5$ SnG, so maybe he's not as bad as the 50cent S&G's, or the 2$NL tables, but I'd just treat them like the usual calling station type.

 

[dj11]

I see this min bet so often. It tends to come in only 2 varities, villain hit, or its a blocking bet. So more than anything the action becomes 'read' dependent. If its a blocking bet it tends to show an ace, or connected overcards.

My gut feeling here is that the hit/blocking bet is about a 50/50 thing, and then the A-overconnectors/hit is another 50%. Leaving AK at about a 25% shot at taking this down without improvement should this hand go the distance.

The call gave more info away than it got in return. Possibly the most important piece of info it gave away was that you were unwilling to take this pot down right then and there.

All that random thinking would tell me to give it the ol 3x raise, (60 on top of the 20). C-bet city baby! It's still early, this bet won't cripple you, but it will give you a lot of info.

 

[jaketrevvor]

The call gave more info away than it got in return. Possibly the most important piece of info it gave away was that you were unwilling to take this pot down right then and there.

Defo the most important reason why the call sucked imo

All that random thinking would tell me to give it the ol 3x raise, (60 on top of the 20).

Raise only 60 when I raised double that pf and the pot is at 350? That doesn't seem right - we'd have no fe. The raise has to be in proportion to the pot size, not the previous bet size.

Tbh I would have pumped this up all day to 200 at least but I had just busted out of two SnGs without cashing that had been running simultaneously with this one so was feeling shaky. Anyhoo I basically did what c9 said:

jaketrevvor calls [20]
Turn: [Kd]
Vil bets 400
jaketrevvor



edit: hope i ddnt post this too soon..

 

[c9h13no3]

jaketrevvor calls [20]
Turn: K♦
Vil bets 400

Wow, that's a hell of a spot. At this point, his range is still pretty big and we beat most of it. 22-JJ, various KX hands, diamonds, and even possibly something as junky as A3.

Now we've got a made hand, and I'm inclined to call here, and see what he does on the river. There's not many hands that have you beat that are in his range.

 

[switch0723]

i push all in at this stage, since id want to be raising it so may aswell push all in. If he had a hand that beat you, why wouldnt he put in a value bet? I think it is more likely he has a hand like pock 7's where he min bet hoping for a fold, and is now regretting that and betting a card he doesnt like, or he has hit the king with a hand such as kq or k,j. I think either way we have the best hand here and should be pushing back

 

[OzExorcist]

Obviously the only correct answer is to minraise.

...with the more than reasonable assumption that villain will fold to such aggression

Villain's turn play is very odd though. Normally the worst you'd expect from a flop min-bettor is 40 on the turn (because, y'know, you have to bet more on the turn since the pot's bigger - LOL), and if they were a decent player slow-playing trips or better on the flop, you'd have expect either a check or a regular-sized bet.

A3 and 44 are about the only hands I'd really be worried about villain having here so... with your stack size, I probably shove this.