£5 NLHE STT: Felt I couldn't get away - when should I have folded?

[DrSparky]

Hi all,

I'm posting what I feel was an awful hand, but I am a beginner and am wondering just how awful it is...

So background: STT Live, we've been playing for just over an hour and have come back from the break, Villian is an ok player and has been picking up some very lucky cards, he has been playing a bit loose as a consequence (estimated VPIP 35-40%, PFR 20% #hands in session approx: 50).

A couple of hands in I get an ok opener and so lead out with a raise, I miss the flop, but get a good read that the villian has also, I then three barrel bluff and come up against a better kicker.

My question is - when should I have given up with this? Comments at the table post play were that I played it right, but that it was a high risk move playing against the deep stack.

Live game so some stack sizes are estimates...
Live STT: Blinds $100/$200 - No Limit Holdem
Seat 1: Seat 1 ($3000)
Seat 2: Seat 2 ($3000)
Seat 3: Hero ($4000)
Seat 4: Seat 4 ($5000)
Seat 5: Seat 5 ($1500)
Seat 6: Seat 6 ($1500)
Seat 7: Villian ($8000)
Seat 8: Seat 8 ($5000)
Seat 9: Seat 9 ($3000)
Seat 1 posts the small blind of $100
Seat 2 posts the big blind of $200
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [As Js]
Hero raises to $600
Seat 4 folds
Seat 5 folds
Seat 6 folds
Villian calls $600
Seat 8 folds
Seat 9 folds
Seat 1 folds
Seat 2 folds
*** FLOP *** [Kh 2s 8c]
Pot: $1500
Hero bets $600
Villian calls $600
*** TURN *** [Kh 2s 8c] 8♦
Pot: $2700
Hero bets $1200
Villian calls $1200
*** RIVER *** [Kh 2s 8c 8d] 8♥
Pot $5100
Hero bets $1600 and is all in
Villian calls $1600
Hero shows [As Js]
Villian shows [Ad Qc]

 

[duggs]

min raise pre, as played cbet give up. 8 is like the worst card for your range and only better hand you are trying to fold is smaller pairs since its incredibly unlikely AQ is in his range and if the turn gets check through we picked up 3 more outs to counterfeit him.

if you think we can actually exert some fold equity then bet flop bigger and jam turn.

 

[DrSparky]

min raise pre, as played cbet give up. 8 is like the worst card for your range and only better hand you are trying to fold is smaller pairs since its incredibly unlikely AQ is in his range and if the turn gets check through we picked up 3 more outs to counterfeit him.

if you think we can actually exert some fold equity then bet flop bigger and jam turn.

Thanks for the reply - I did have a good read on him that he had nothing, when I was writing the hand out I realized my bet size on the river was very small and so he had better odds to call... I'm leaning towards a jam on the turn...

As a beginner I don't fully understand the first paragraph of your reply - I understand an 8 doesn't hit my range (Should have thought of that!), but as AQ is a very small part of his range why would you c-bet and give up? Is it because we don't want to build a big pot if we don't have anything, or is it because we have to assume he has hit the board in some way? - Thanks

 

[duggs]

the guy is a fish so its pretty hard to fold him off much, heaps of Kx heaps of 8x heaps of 22+ that he probably wont fold.

just as an aside you didnt lose this river its a chop

 

[DrSparky]

the guy is a fish so its pretty hard to fold him off much, heaps of Kx heaps of 8x heaps of 22+ that he probably wont fold.

just as an aside you didnt lose this river its a chop

Ah now I get it, thanks.

You're right on the chop as well - I've been swindled! (I was on too much tilt to notice, should have payed more attention, been less annoyed/results orientated...)

 

[drdunks]

After C betting the flop I'd and getting a call I'd say put the brakes on then and try and check it down BUT If you feel he's missed too but is still calling the flop, the 8 on the turn misses your range so betting their represents an over pair or better IMO so another barrel isn't terrible following through to the river 8 which then becomes an automatic barrel as your already repping a good hand. The problem is it may be better C betting/checking down if he's demonstrated he's willing to call down bets with air because on the river the pots so big he may call anyway. If you feel he's missed the flop and has floated to your C Bet then you can take either play, but by firing a barrel on the turn I personally feel you have to fire again on the river.
But as is rightly stated the rivers a chop if the boards K high

 

[duggs]

repping overpairs is tough since its literally only AA. we actually rep AA/AK/QQ/JJ when we bet turn. aswell as like 1010/99/8x/

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

@ Duggs

Would you bet/fold QQ-99 on this turn? Or do you think checkcalling here is the better line with these hands.

 

[duggs]

SPR is one and they are going to check back a ton of A high hands that arent going to bluff into us, + they will call any pair. so yea i just jam

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

SPR is one and they are going to check back a ton of A high hands that arent going to bluff into us, + they will call any pair. so yea i just jam

You are right missed stacksizes

I am an :egg:

 

[duggs]

i think it goes jam>c/f>c/c imo. we arent ever getting bluffed here imo.

if stacks were deeper id still go b/f>c/f>c/c.

 

[DrSparky]

Thanks for all the replies on this one
Sparky