$5 NLHE MTT: Flopped top pair + 3rd nut flush draw - 3bet on multiway flop

[ManicLombax]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 50/22/46

I raised the flop for value, but not sure that was a good idea. As played, should we go ahead and get it in, or can you find a fold sometimes? CO's calling range pf is ridiculously wide, but his 3-bet on the flop looks crazy strong.


Revolution Gaming Network - $5+$0.5|50/100 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (MP): 3,325.00
MP+1: 3,600.00
LP: 2,714.00
CO: 1,505.00
BTN: 2,415.00
SB: 3,450.00
BB: 4,421.00
UTG: 1,470.00
UTG+1: 8,922.00

SB posts SB 50.00, BB posts BB 100.00

Pre Flop: (150.00) Hero has K:club: J:diamond:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 200.00, fold, fold, CO calls 200.00, fold, fold, BB calls 100.00

Flop: (650.00, 3 players) 5:diamond: 9:diamond: K:diamond:
BB bets 200.00, Hero raises to 500.00, CO raises to 1,100.00, fold, Hero raises to 1,700.00, CO calls 205.00 and is all-in

 

[doomasiggy]

do we have stats/reads on bb? Do we know what he's donking out with?

 

[BlueNowhere]

bb is irrelevant.

hand is played fine imo.

 

[Arjonius]

Why open for a min-bet from EP?

 

[ManicLombax]

do we have stats/reads on bb? Do we know what he's donking out with?

Honestly didn't look at BB stats at the time. Teeny donk bet looked weak, so maybe my flop raise was ok to keep CO from coming along essentially for free with a better diamond. Just checked though, and BB was playing 32/16/40.

Why open for a min-bet from EP?

Laziness I guess. I'd normally not open for more than about 2.2x though. What would you open for? Case can certainly be made for open folding KJo in mid/early position too.

 

[Worak]

Why play KJo from MP, why minraise pre ?

Edit: beat me to it with your last sentence.

 

[ManicLombax]

Oh, and my image at this point is pretty active. Not that people at a $5 tournament are necessarily paying much attention.

As for why the open at all, I've been playing much more laggy over the last year or so. I like the style, and overall I think I've been playing it reasonably well (though my small sample of results would say otherwise, results-oriented FTW). Wondering if I should just tighten up at these stakes, and count on mostly betting good hands for value.

As played, any other opinions on flop play? Normally TP+decent kicker+FD = git-it-in for me, but CO's raise (leaving 200 chips behind) definitely made me pause here.

 

[hackmeplz]

If it were low-stakes cash I'd say play tighter but low-stakes sngs/mtts are filled with weak/tight nits who just want to cash. I mean hell just read the tourney strat forum here I just read a thread on how to counter aggression and the overall consensus was basically wait for aces and trap them. That said, flop raise I'd make a bit bigger and yeah ship over his 3b like you did, wp.

 

[shinedown.45]

You have 3 diamonds on board and a villain who is not scared of the flop raise you made(red flag IMO).
I would just fold after some thought.
CO could easily have AK(diamond being one)/AQd/KQd.

 

[baudib1]

If table is tight then pre is fine. By same token, if table is tight then you shouldn't expect many 1-diamond hands to call you. We're crushed by flop 3-bet, fold.

 

[hackmeplz]

Did you guys even bother to look at stats of our opponent? He's a complete whale and we have TP+FD. In addition the effective stacks are 15bb. You're really raise/folding flop with this hand against a whale 15bb deep? That'd just be so horrendous.

 

[duggs]

Open pre is fine, r/c flop is good get in the moneys.

 

[ManicLombax]

Did you guys even bother to look at stats of our opponent? He's a complete whale and we have TP+FD. In addition the effective stacks are 15bb. You're really raise/folding flop with this hand against a whale 15bb deep? That'd just be so horrendous.

Yeah his VPIP is 50%, but he wasn't overly aggro post flop. I think I'd pretty happily get it in heads up 15bb deep if he'd just shoved over my c-bet, but a 3-bet in a multi-way pot on this flop looks stronger to me. Obviously I did get it in anyhow, but I wasn't fist pumping.

 

[hackmeplz]

The 50vpip just means he's awful at poker

 

[ManicLombax]

The 50vpip just means he's awful at poker

It means he calls way too often preflop. Even if we agree he's awful, we should probably think about what hands he's 3-betting with on this flop.

 

[Loonbat]

If table is tight then pre is fine. By same token, if table is tight then you shouldn't expect many 1-diamond hands to call you. We're crushed by flop 3-bet, fold.

Agree with this 100%.

 

[Poker Orifice]

If table is tight then pre is fine. By same token, if table is tight then you shouldn't expect many 1-diamond hands to call you. We're crushed by flop 3-bet, fold.

Agreed ^ (once again, lol)

 

[duggs]

are people really advocating fold v his effective stack?

 

[Loonbat]

are people really advocating fold v his effective stack?

Yes because you'll end up spewing 8 blinds, about 1/4 of your starting stack for the hand. If you feel you are drawing that thin, you do not have the odds to make the call (put him in).

 

[baudib1]

50/22 means he's playing almost Any 2 S00ted Cards, and he's passive. When he 3-bets this flop it's almost always a flush or set. I don't think this spot is even remotely close and I'd fold and feel pretty damn happy about it.

 

[cardriverx]

I say get it in on the flop. 50 vip means he's bad he could have naked Ad in his range that's why I get it in. I also most likely fold pre.