$5 NLHE MTT: Flopped full house. Bet or check?

[DrSparky]

A x/r after betting that flop would yield a snap fold I'd think. Again villain is no fish.

Fair enough, thanks for the input - I was just trying to work out what could hurt you on the turn or river but can't quite get my head around it. Would it be any K? (for the annoying time Villian has a K)....

Reason I ask is I'm wondering if there is any school of thought that we're quite happy to take this down early?

Thanks

 

[Blobweird123]

Fair enough, thanks for the input - I was just trying to work out what could hurt you on the turn or river but can't quite get my head around it. Would it be any K? (for the annoying time Villian has a K)....

Reason I ask is I'm wondering if there is any school of thought that we're quite happy to take this down early?

Thanks

Nope. We would love 3 streets of value here. Only realistic hands beating us again are JJ, QQ, AA if they boat up on turn or river. But those hands are 3betting us pre and would make it easier to detect. So as played I was not afraid of any hand. Just unsure how to maximize value vs a thinking reg with my image being kinda nitty

 

[DrSparky]

Nope. We would love 3 streets of value here. Only realistic hands beating us again are JJ, QQ, AA if they boat up on turn or river. But those hands are 3betting us pre and would make it easier to detect. So as played I was not afraid of any hand. Just unsure how to maximize value vs a thinking reg with my image being kinda nitty

Now it makes sense... Thanks!

Would a min-raise be too obvious here with the hope that they'll raise you?

 

[duggs]

bet flop, he isnt good if he is recommending folding 1010 pre in a pre ante shallow eff stack tournament. c/r reps absolutely no air and this isnt a board he will be betting much air on since it stands to reason we dont have a c/f range on this board only a c/c and c/r range so he is going to bet into us with much less than he calls. bet less on flop. bet flop/bet most turns/jam most rivers

but please dont show, most likely you just gave away a massive bet sizing tell on that flop

 

[ScottieDuncan]

BET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Blobweird123]

bet flop, he isnt good if he is recommending folding 1010 pre in a pre ante shallow eff stack tournament. c/r reps absolutely no air and this isnt a board he will be betting much air on since it stands to reason we dont have a c/f range on this board only a c/c and c/r range so he is going to bet into us with much less than he calls. bet less on flop. bet flop/bet most turns/jam most rivers

but please dont show, most likely you just gave away a massive bet sizing tell on that flop

I've played with this guy many times before and he's seen many showdowns of mine so I'm not giving away much. Anyway he didn't say I should've folded. He wanted to know why I would open on that flop.

 

[duggs]

he is terrible then. you are betting for value. his flatting range contains a heap of pocket pairs that float, every broadway combo flopped a straight draw. he has KQ/KJ/K10/K9 all in his range that connected with this flop. QJ/AJ/AQ all flopped gutters A10/Q10/J10 all flopped 2nd pair. 99/88/77 arent going to fold to one barrel on this board after flatting pre.

the range that bets when checked to is way narrower than the range that calls.

btw you are getting your lingo mixed up, to open is to open the action pre, ie open raise, open limp. occasionally open fold is used to differentiate between folding before or after a 3bet. he wanted to know why you cbet

 

[Blobweird123]

he is terrible then. you are betting for value. his flatting range contains a heap of pocket pairs that float, every broadway combo flopped a straight draw. he has KQ/KJ/K10/K9 all in his range that connected with this flop. QJ/AJ/AQ all flopped gutters A10/Q10/J10 all flopped 2nd pair. 99/88/77 arent going to fold to one barrel on this board after flatting pre.

the range that bets when checked to is way narrower than the range that calls.

btw you are getting your lingo mixed up, to open is to open the action pre, ie open raise, open limp. occasionally open fold is used to differentiate between folding before or after a 3bet. he wanted to know why you cbet

The guy has a huge roi over about 15k tourneys. Not doubting your assessments generally but this guy is far from terrible lol. And I even said to him "Well I was hoping you hit with Kx or OESD maybe" and he said he's folding the SD anyway. Mind you, I don't know how much it changes but I present myself as a very tight nit lol

And yes, I know open is when you open the pot pre. I just threw the word in there. Cbet, open the flop, pretty much the same deal.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

If he would call QJ pre and snap fold on that board then yeah he's pretty bad. Same as if he wouldn't bet in your spot. Who is this reg? And if he's so good, why is he playing freerolls?

 

[smidjet]

might sound stupid but i hate my hand here, i try to take control of the pot and keep it as small as possible while making it look like im trying to milk him, which i am but they are not calling without a K and that means in reality i could be behind to a K 10, not likely but happens. if they push back well then you gotta go with it but i am not going to like it

 

[Poker Orifice]

might sound stupid but i hate my hand here, i try to take control of the pot and keep it as small as possible while making it look like im trying to milk him, which i am but they are not calling without a K and that means in reality i could be behind to a K 10, not likely but happens. if they push back well then you gotta go with it but i am not going to like it

You're kidding right?!?!?!

I probably shouldn't respond here ^ but I mean come on. Maybe we should just check it down unless flop comes TTK? & then only bet river (& be sure board doesn't come running Kings)

 

[Blobweird123]

If he would call QJ pre and snap fold on that board then yeah he's pretty bad. Same as if he wouldn't bet in your spot. Who is this reg? And if he's so good, why is he playing freerolls?

Not a freeroll. PT4 just didn't pick up this tourney correctly. I had to manually enter prize info/buyin

 

[Blobweird123]

You're kidding right?!?!?!

I probably shouldn't respond here ^ but I mean come on. Maybe we should just check it down unless flop comes TTK? & then only bet river (& be sure board doesn't come running Kings)

I chose to just ignore that one myself. I wanna bet all day every day. Just wasn't sure if I should be so direct. But to be afraid of that hand is just plain nonsense!

 

[Indian Givah]

if it was me, since you opened up I'd throw in like maybe 1/2 the pot maybe less depending on what you think he'll call. then id check the turn just to make it look like i was trying to buy the pot and hopefully he'd come out with a decent bet to buy the pot, if he comes out with a bet then 3-bet him. I've seen people push on my check, but normally lead out with a decent bet. works wonders deep in a tourney.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

if it was me, since you opened up I'd throw in like maybe 1/2 the pot maybe less depending on what you think he'll call. then id check the turn just to make it look like i was trying to buy the pot and hopefully he'd come out with a decent bet to buy the pot, if he comes out with a bet then 3-bet him. I've seen people push on my check, but normally lead out with a decent bet. works wonders deep in a tourney.

If we're checking to induce a bluff on the turn what's the point in check raising?

 

[Indian Givah]

Blob only raised 2.5 times the bb, maybe representing a mid A/KQ. If he were to bet the flop and turn I'd think the button would fold, a bet check may influence the button to bet thinking bob has A high in hopes of buying the pot. All about getting your moneys worth right? Either way I think he's going to fold the turn unless he has a K

 

[Indian Givah]

Meant jq, either way what's important is the turn.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Blob only raised 2.5 times the bb, maybe representing a mid A/KQ. If he were to bet the flop and turn I'd think the button would fold, a bet check may influence the button to bet thinking bob has A high in hopes of buying the pot. All about getting your moneys worth right? Either way I think he's going to fold the turn unless he has a K

I don't see that 2.5x represents mid A/KQ I would assume he does this with most of his range. If our range is so obvious from our pre flop sizing then we should not be making it so.
Also, I didn't say to bet the flop and turn, I said if we check turn, why are we check raising? If you want to get your moneys worth, check calling the turn and hoping they stab again on river would surely be a better plan? Check raising merely folds out all his air, whilst a check/call can look pretty weak and we may get another street from him if we check the river too. It all depends on reads and since we've played with this villain before we should have some decent ones by now.

 

[Indian Givah]

I don't see that 2.5x represents mid A/KQ I would assume he does this with most of his range. If our range is so obvious from our pre flop sizing then we should not be making it so.
Also, I didn't say to bet the flop and turn, I said if we check turn, why are we check raising? If you want to get your moneys worth, check calling the turn and hoping they stab again on river would surely be a better plan? Check raising merely folds out all his air, whilst a check/call can look pretty weak and we may get another street from him if we check the river too. It all depends on reads and since we've played with this villain before we should have some decent ones by now.

Well I feel if you just flatted his raise on the turn what makes you think he's going to raise on the river? I highly doubt he would, unless he did have a K than more than likely he would pay for the re raise only increasing the pot that much more. Different styles of playing I guess.

 

[CANDYMAN1414]

Im either min betting or 2xBB here, rainbow flop so Im thinking if he doesnt have a PP he prob didnt hit the flop. Heres to hoping hes aggressive !! I seen a comment earlier that mentioned if the flop would have been 8 8 10 and I agree you slow play that flop.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Well I feel if you just flatted his raise on the turn what makes you think he's going to raise on the river? I highly doubt he would, unless he did have a K than more than likely he would pay for the re raise only increasing the pot that much more. Different styles of playing I guess.

Nothing makes me think he would necessarily bet on the river. You said check turn to induce a bluff which is fine but then if we then 2-bet his bluff we just fold out all his bluffs, while he MAY bluff on the river. He would also bet all his Ks twice and we can check raise river.