$5.50 NLHE STT Turbo: A8s, to steal or not to steal (that is one question)

[nabmom]

Final hand to post for analysis today...

I think this is a good spot to steal and I think a suited A is a good stealing hand. BB is a loose player but I figured if he calls, I'm still ahead of his range (41/18). And I'll be IP.

I'm wondering if the fact that he's usually defending his blind is a reason not to steal with the A8. What do you think? Do you steal tighter against a looser player? Shouldn't I be trying to steal blinds and gain chips at this stage?

So I steal, he calls. I cbet a small amount because I missed and I figure that if he doesn't have anything he'll fold no matter how little I bet and if he has any piece of this or has a PP, he's calling.

When he calls, I figure I'm giving up on this hand. It goes check/check to the river. Would another cbet on the turn have been appropriate?

 

[BlueNowhere]

You haven't posted a hand?

 

[nabmom]

Oops!

Merge - $0+$0.00|<> NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 3,444.00
SB: 1,200.00
BB: 3,831.00
UTG: 2,595.00
CO: 2,430.00

SB posts SB 75.00, BB posts BB 150.00

Pre Flop: (pot: 225.00) Hero has A♣ 8♣

fold, fold, Hero raises to 300.00, fold, BB calls 150.00

Flop: (675.00, 2 players) J♥ J♣ 5♠
BB checks, Hero bets 337.00, BB calls 337.00

Turn: (1349.00, 2 players) T♠
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (1349.00, 2 players) 2♣
BB checks, Hero checks

 

[the lab man]

I would prefer a raise of 2.5-3x the blind, your attemping to steal with a min raise , too early to do that in turbo,If your intent is stealing his bb why not push all in?

 

[WiZZiM]

This is made akward by the SB. If we raise bigger like labman suggests then we are pretty much going to have to call a shove from the SB.

We don't really want to just shove, because it's high risk/low reward.

Min-raising is ok, but you have to know that you will need to play postflop sometimes here. It's also puts us in a tricky spot when SB decides to shove, so we have to make this decision before we raise. If we are not planning to call a SB shove, then min-raising is one of three options.

We could also just fold here, yes it seems nitty, but we're in a good position here, and it's an akward spot.

The other option which i prefer is to just flat call the button. We have an aggressive BB, but not one who raises that often, he much prefers to just call. Usually the sb cannot just call along here(if he does it's not the end of the world), he will usually just fold or shove, which eliminates a decision we have to make as we have not invested too much into the pot.

So, with just flat calling the button here we are essentially putting ourselves in the same position on the flop as we have in the OP, however the pot is much smaller and easier to manage. So we are essentially using our position to steal the pot on flops. If the BB leads, it's no big deal, we can make our decision then. Usually he will just check and give us the pot on the flop.

 

[WiZZiM]

I'm wondering if the fact that he's usually defending his blind is a reason not to steal with the A8. What do you think? It's actually a better reason to steal blinds, because he calls a lot and probably plays badly postflop, it's MORE profitable for us to steal here and then take more money from him postflop.Do you steal tighter against a looser player?In general yes, but it depends on what kind of loose they are. If they call lots preflop and give up a lot postflop, then i'd steal much much looser, if they 3bet a lot and are in general tough to play against, then i'd steal tighter. Shouldn't I be trying to steal blinds and gain chips at this stage?It's not so much to do with having a set strategy. Like, we shouldn't just be doing things because we read in some SNG strategy article that we should be stealing chips at this blind level. Instead, look at your position relative to the stacks around you. Here, my thinking would be that i'm content with my stack, im second in chips, with 3 people lower than me, and one whos marginally in front of me. I'd be happy with my stack at the moment, which means i'm less likely to put myself in marginal situations.

So I steal, he calls. I cbet a small amount because I missed and I figure that if he doesn't have anything he'll fold no matter how little I bet and if he has any piece of this or has a PP, he's calling.Depending on your opponant, flops like this will miss him agreed, but he will also think you have nothing as well

When he calls, I figure I'm giving up on this hand. It goes check/check to the river. Would another cbet on the turn have been appropriate?If your going to do this, then make your c-bet smaller again, then fire the turn. Also, read above about flat calling, you can easier fire two-three barrells if you need by just flat calling preflop. But in general it's probably best to just check back and give up

..

 

[nabmom]

The other option which i prefer is to just flat call the button. We have an aggressive BB, but not one who raises that often, he much prefers to just call. Usually the sb cannot just call along here(if he does it's not the end of the world), he will usually just fold or shove, which eliminates a decision we have to make as we have not invested too much into the pot.

So, with just flat calling the button here we are essentially putting ourselves in the same position on the flop as we have in the OP, however the pot is much smaller and easier to manage. So we are essentially using our position to steal the pot on flops. If the BB leads, it's no big deal, we can make our decision then. Usually he will just check and give us the pot on the flop.

Thank you so much for this explanation. I think I have some "cross-over" issues from cash play where I rarely flat, because flatting never occurred to me. I can see that here, with this type of player, it makes a lot of sense and is the play that most appeals to me.

I would prefer a raise of 2.5-3x the blind, your attemping to steal with a min raise , too early to do that in turbo,If your intent is stealing his bb why not push all in?

I'd like to get more feedback/explanation on this raise sizing and the comment that it's too early to do this in a turbo.

For raise sizing, I thought the general approach (and I'm not everyone agrees) is to reduce the raise size once the blinds are in the 50/100 arena (going to 2.5x). 3x raise with the blinds at 75/150 seems high to what I thought. Is this an area where micro vs. small/mid stakes makes a difference?

What is "early" in a turbo vs. a non-turbo? Do you define early by the blind structure or by the number of players left in the game? (I only play micro SnGs, but I've seen a bubble when the blinds were 50/100 and some games where 8 players are still left with the blinds at 150/300).

I know that almost everything is poker is situation-dependent, but is there a general guideline for relative beginners that would be good to follow until I get more of a feel for the game?