$5.50 NLHE STT: Should I call in this situation

[Grossberger]

$5.50 NL HE STT: Should I call in this situation

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 5.5 Tournament, 200/400 Blinds 25 Ante (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
Hero (SB) (t5440)
BB (t4468)
UTG (t2991)
Button (t601)
Hero's M: 7.77
Preflop: Hero is SB with 4

, 6

1 fold, Button bets t576 (All-In), 1 fold, BB calls t176
Flop: (t1452) 2

, A

, 8

(2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: (t1452) 3

(2 players, 1 all-in)
River: (t1452) 9

(2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: t1452
Results:
Button had 7

, 8

(one pair, eights).
BB had J

, 6

(high card, Ace).
Outcome: Button won t1452

 

[WiZZiM]

I think we can probably invest in calling here to try and help knock out the shortie. You already have 200 invested, may as well fork out another 300.. Otherwise your just adding dead money to the pot..

 

[Poker Orifice]

Personally I fold. I also don't see any great benefit to knocking out the shortie..??

 

[WiZZiM]

Cashing perhaps? It's not like we are super deep, we still have a chance of missing the money. I know where you are coming from, but it's not like we're in a position to really exploit the bubble, thus, id want it to end, so i'd call. It may give him an extra 300 chips, but i think it hurts his chances of winning dramatically.

It's not like we are really comfortable, we have the other big stack to our right, so we can't really shove too many hands on them. So every blind round that comes we are slowly getting blinded out, unless we want to shove light into the equal stack with a shortstack present (not a good idea).

Now that i look agian, it's not 300 it's 400 that we are calling. I'm not sure if it's going to be a great idea to call off taht many chips. hmmm, but i still stand behind my reasoning for wanting to call and knock him out.

 

[Poker Orifice]

.

It's not like we are really comfortable, we have the other big stack to our right, so we can't really shove too many hands on them. .

I would think on the contrary here... it's not like the other bigstack is going to be able to call our shoves light (not sure what they'd need to be able to call but am thinking it'd be like KK+.. maybe QQ+?... 'BUT'.. do they know this? < something else to consider here)

 

[arahel_jazz]

insta-fold. Two reasons. There is already one caller of the short stack on the board, and you don't have a good enough hand to beat much of anything.

By calling, you just tripled up the shortie and gave him new life to almost 3rd stack, instead of just doubling them up in the event that they win (like they did here).

 

[WiZZiM]

'BUT'.. do they know this? < something else to consider here)

Yeah, that is the big question, if the guy is a random we have to sort of be a little cautious, don't you think? it's not like we can just go crazy shoving anytwo vs an unknown calling range of around 20-25%.

 

[OzExorcist]

insta-fold. Two reasons. There is already one caller of the short stack on the board, and you don't have a good enough hand to beat much of anything.

By calling, you just tripled up the shortie and gave him new life to almost 3rd stack, instead of just doubling them up in the event that they win (like they did here).

Gotta disagree on a few points.

First off nobody's actually called when it's our turn to act. It's safe to assume that the big blind will at least call if we call but he hasn't done it yet.

Second, if we fold, the big blind calls and the button wins he takes a pot with 1452 in it. If we call and the button still wins the pot will be 1828 - not a huge difference and I think probably worth the risk of knocking the villain out.

Third, I suspect our hand actually has decent equity against the button and big blind's ranges. We're never ahead, obviously, but we're usually drawing live. So it's not like we're just giving our chips away.

It's borderline for me, and personally my decision would be swayed most by reads on the big blind. If he's conservative / likely to check down the side pot then I think calling isn't too bad, whereas if he's aggressive / likely to make moves postflop and make life difficult for us I think we just dump it and save ourselves the hassle.

 

[Grossberger]

The reason I posted this was the BB tolds me I had no clue how to play. That I should of called with ATC in that situation. Now my thinking is with this hand YES I probably have to live cards however I wasn't 100% sure BB would check it down he was rather agressive and I didn't want to triple up the short stack. But BB just kept on me that I should of called and wanted to see if others agreed in this situation.

 

[bolda3]

The reason I posted this was the BB tolds me I had no clue how to play. That I should of called with ATC in that situation. Now my thinking is with this hand YES I probably have to live cards however I wasn't 100% sure BB would check it down he was rather agressive and I didn't want to triple up the short stack. But BB just kept on me that I should of called and wanted to see if others agreed in this situation.

Given that I do feel a call here isn't a bad play. As long as you have 2 live cards and you most likely do and it gets checked down. However it takes a decently smart person to know to check it down and not bluff you off a potential draw.

 

[OzExorcist]

The reason I posted this was the BB tolds me I had no clue how to play. That I should of called with ATC in that situation. Now my thinking is with this hand YES I probably have to live cards however I wasn't 100% sure BB would check it down he was rather agressive and I didn't want to triple up the short stack. But BB just kept on me that I should of called and wanted to see if others agreed in this situation.

Given that read I'm even better with folding.

Most people who actually know what they're talking about know enough to not bother giving lessons at the table. Since this guy doesn't follow that advice, I'd just ignore what he said.

 

[Poker Orifice]

The reason I posted this was the BB tolds me I had no clue how to play. That I should of called with ATC in that situation. Now my thinking is with this hand YES I probably have to live cards however I wasn't 100% sure BB would check it down he was rather agressive and I didn't want to triple up the short stack. But BB just kept on me that I should of called and wanted to see if others agreed in this situation.

BB seems like a good candidate to shove into,... they're trying to coach the table, professing to know what's best... surely they'll also know that they can't call shoves by you w/o a top tier hand.
Let him think what he wants.. ignore him.. but shove liberally on him BvB while the SS is still on table. (and if you wake up with a monster.. BvB, don't opt to raise smaller... just shove it in again... if you've tilted him a bit he's likely to call on a spite call if you've shoved already a couple of times on him...).

 

[new2poker]

No, you don't call in my opinion. It might help get the button out but with a hand like that, it is much more likely to provide one of the other 2 guys with your chips. Although you have the biggest chip stack, it isn't huge in terms of your M. You don't know what BB will do but you know he definitely is going to at least call. If you call and BB puts in the minimum raise, you probably have to call. If he raises more than that, you have to fold. You need things to not happen just to see the flop and a longshot with your hand to happen to win even if you do see the flop. I think BB was just annoyed that he lost chips and he wanted to blame someone.

You did miss an opportunity to wind the BB up though. He was already unhappy. I would have said something like,"you must be mad calling an all-in with a hand like J6". Although we all know he was right to call, I think a comment like that would have upset him more. I'm not one for talking at poker tables but if people try to criticise my play when I haven't asked for an opinion, I make an exception.

 

[TheOne2Watch]

No way do you call that, you have to fold.

 

[OzExorcist]

No way do you call that, you have to fold.

Why is that?

 

[cardplayer52]

If i'm in the BB i'm shipping ATCs cards here. That's one reason I'm also folding from the SB. The other is 6 high just doesn't have much equity in a 3 way pot. If the stacks were deeper I'd easily make the call here but I see no reason to play here let the BB look the button up. I am shipping pretty light here and if I did play this hand I would shove it.