$5.50 NLHE MTT: K4o in the BB

[EvertonGirl]

$5.50 NHLE [6-Max, Progessive KO]
BB Level XVII (5000/10000/1250)

LJ 1,030,382
BB (Hero) 682,557

Hero is holding 4♦ K♠

Pre flop:
LJ raises to 21,500, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: ($55,500, 2 players) 7♦ 5♣ 3♦
Hero checks, LJ raises to 18,425, Hero ??

What would you do??

 

[Sidetracked]

It's a tough spot. I would prefer the call preflop if your K4 had been suited. It would give the hand more playability post flop.

 

[TheDude6622]

I wouldn't call pre. K4 off is such a tough hand to play even in position in this case. I could make a case for it if it was suited, but not with the blinds this big.

 

[QA77]

Raise or fold. Calling doesn’t seem like the best option unless you plan to bluff the turn. I would prefer raising or folding preflop as welll.

 

[eetenor]

Range advantage?

$5.50 NHLE [6-Max, Progessive KO]
BB Level XVII (5000/10000/1250)

LJ 1,030,382
BB (Hero) 682,557

Hero is holding 4♦ K♠

Pre flop:
LJ raises to 21,500, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: ($55,500, 2 players) 7♦ 5♣ 3♦
Hero checks, LJ raises to 18,425, Hero ??

What would you do??

LJ low jack? btn- cutoff -hijack- low jack? Would that not be UTG it is six max.
UTG range should be premium cards so you should have the range advantage and the nut advantage, you are more likely to have 64 33 55 you both could have 77. You can have 53 75 86 you can have draw + flush draw hands villain is way less likely to be holding those.

So with that said what would you do with 8d6d? Do that with K4, after all a lot of low cards on the turn improve your hand and make that board so ugly for premium holdings.
Hell a K may be good for you as well as you block AK KK KQ etc.

Just remember though it is a $5 buy-in so villains may not ever be folding an over pair here. If that was true of this villain you should have folded preflop as a big chunk of our defend equity is taking pots away when these exact flops happen.

By the way are you ready to 3 barrel shove river with K high or pair of 4's on an all low board? Not always but sometimes. If not fold preflop.

Hope this helps

 

[EvertonGirl]

LJ low jack? btn- cutoff -hijack- low jack? Would that not be UTG it is six max.
UTG range should be premium cards so you should have the range advantage and the nut advantage, you are more likely to have 64 33 55 you both could have 77. You can have 53 75 86 you can have draw + flush draw hands villain is way less likely to be holding those.

So with that said what would you do with 8d6d? Do that with K4, after all a lot of low cards on the turn improve your hand and make that board so ugly for premium holdings.
Hell a K may be good for you as well as you block AK KK KQ etc.

Just remember though it is a $5 buy-in so villains may not ever be folding an over pair here. If that was true of this villain you should have folded preflop as a big chunk of our defend equity is taking pots away when these exact flops happen.

By the way are you ready to 3 barrel shove river with K high or pair of 4's on an all low board? Not always but sometimes. If not fold preflop.

Hope this helps

Nope there is no UTG at 6max, the first position is LJ LowJack

 

[THQ01]

As small as a raise as this is, I vote fold preflop here too. However, as that is moot and you have presented the hand as is, certainly a check raise here is a nice move. Your perceived range is certainly small pairs and you have a wide range to defend here. Plus it's the strongest line you can take and forces opponent to both respect it and have a hand to continue himself. I don't vote barrelling off if called though but I do like a check raise here, otherwise it makes your calls with hands like this pre flop very very poor.

 

[EvertonGirl]

This is what happened:
Flop: ($55,500, 2 players) 7♦ 5♣ 3♦
Hero checks, LJ raises to 18,425, Hero raises to 65,000, 1 fold

 

[KristaK]

$5.50 NHLE [6-Max, Progessive KO]
BB Level XVII (5000/10000/1250)
LJ 1,030,382
BB (Hero) 682,557
Hero is holding 4♦ K♠
Pre flop:
LJ raises to 21,500, 4 folds, Hero calls.
Flop: ($55,500, 2 players) 7♦ 5♣ 3♦
Hero checks, LJ raises to 18,425, Hero ??
What would you do??

hi hi
i think i would fold K4o against the LJ open raise out of position

 

[fundiver199]

As for preflop you see people using these absurdly small open sizes in tournaments, even when stacks are still deep. I am not a tournament expert, but I can easily see, that it might be correct to defend with hands as bad as K4o, since there is also an ante to fight for. We are paying 11.500 for a chance to win 52.500, so we only need to win this around 22% of the time, which we might well do even with junk like K4o.

Anyways correct or not we called, and on this flop I am certainly check-raising. We can have a lot of hands, that connected with this board, he can not, and we flopped a junky draw. He is probably also C-betting way to much, so time to put the pressure back on him and realise our required 22% equity.

 

[eetenor]

Thank You

Nope there is no UTG at 6max, the first position is LJ LowJack

Wow that is a very interesting choice by 6 max players to classify it as LJ instead of UTG.

What would the benefit be to doing so?

Is it because the game plays with a much wider range from 1st position so it is to remind players to think of it as a LJ range not a UTG range?

Or is it just the latest style thing?

Thank you for the lingo correction.

 

[EvertonGirl]

Wow that is a very interesting choice by 6 max players to classify it as LJ instead of UTG.

What would the benefit be to doing so?

Is it because the game plays with a much wider range from 1st position so it is to remind players to think of it as a LJ range not a UTG range?

Or is it just the latest style thing?

Thank you for the lingo correction.

You're welcome.

Depending how many players at the table determine which position starts first, so if its 5 handed the first position would be HJ, 4 handed CO etc, etc.

 

[Jon Poker]

Whether you should be playing the K4o as a defend preflop is not something I am going to cover much of here. It's not a great spot to flat - I think you should be raising the best of the best and your worst of the worst so if I didn't want to fold preflop I probably would have 3bet and tried to take it down - this is also pretty player dependent and shouldn't be something you do with rags too often.

Anyhow, here we are preflop - you check and the villan cbets 18.5k - so what do we do? Check-raise!! This is the kind of board you need to be doing that on! Your range dominates this board - you were the BB and could literally have anything - even AA and KK here are going to be VERY uncomfortable calling a check raise on this flop - there are also a ton of good turn cards for you to barrel on. I'm all for the check-raise here and I'm probably double barreling on lots of turn cards. If I get looked up on the turn I will evaluate the river but if I got called twice I probably wont be getting to frisky on a bricked river card. Hope this helps

 

[maxi_j]

Call pre with K4s vs CO. Vs low jack no way. On flop you can call because you have draw (Gutshot plus Overcard)

 

[Veritas]

fold pre - terrible Hand to defend out of Position
although the Flops hits our bb calling range better than his range, we only hold K high with a gutshot
this might be worth a check raise bluff, but I'd rather fold than donk off my Chips with a terrible hand

 

[greatgame230]

For me it is an easy fold in the pre, but here the interesting thing is what information you had of the opponent to make that raise in the flop, I think it is a very risky movement unless the tournament situation and the information of the opponent would have indicated

 

[theANMATOR]

Play the Player - maybe

$5.50 NHLE [6-Max, Progessive KO]
BB Level XVII (5000/10000/1250)

LJ 1,030,382
BB (Hero) 682,557

Hero is holding 4♦ K♠

Pre flop:
LJ raises to 21,500, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: ($55,500, 2 players) 7♦ 5♣ 3♦
Hero checks, LJ raises to 18,425, Hero ??

What would you do??

Higher stakes than I normally play but thought I could add to the discussion. I always play against the player regardless of the cards here. Depending on how much info I've gathered, I will either 3b or fold in this spot preflop.

Same with the flop - I'm playing the player not my holdings, but taking into account the flop. This smashes us here - so a check-raise is warranted, though I'm more of a check raise on the turn kind of guy.
Risky to give a free turn card, but reward is greater as well.

If I have zero info on the opponent at this point - I'd probably fold pre - because K/4 is a crap hand. Rather loose tiny blind here/now and win a big pot later with good cards, instead of risk loosing a medium pot with junk cards now.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

preflop:
K4o preflop is a marginal call, though defensible. the deeper our stacks, the more "playability" we want with our BB defends (things like ability to make straights, flushes, or good top pairs with decent kickers) at shallower stacks defending with just about any Ax and Kx is acceptable because flopping top pair is good enough to play for stacks.

that said, I will still be defending the K4o here quite a bit because of the tiny raise size (I would fold if he had raised 2.4x or 2.5x)

also a critical piece of making this decision is our assessment of the skill edge between myself and villain. if I think I can outplay him, I will call more hands for slightly larger raise sizes. If I think he can outplay me I'll be a little tighter with my calling range and increase my 3bets (both bluffs and value). If I have no info, or think we are relatively close in skill then this is the type of marginal hand I will call for a small raise and fold for a medium raise.



flop:
now...as played.... on that flop, facing a 1/3 pot bet from villain I am check raising here ALL DAY. it's a perfect canditate.

this board favors your range over villain's. His preflop range is stronger but you have a significant nuts advantage on this flop. you can have all the straights, he can have basically none. you can have several 2 pair combos, he can have basically none. you have all the sets he probably only has 77 and maybe 55.

if you are going to check raise a lot of value hands (2 pair+) then you need to find bluffs. a gutshot with a backdoor flush draw and 1 over is a great candidate. not to mention your hand is a little bit too weak to flat.


sizing:
I would generally choose about 3.0-5.0 his raise size (the bigger his Cbet the smaller my check raise). so in this instance I think I would check raise to about 4.5x. meaning I would check raise to about 80k to 85k

Plans: to barrel or not to barrel?

I will have a high turn barrel frequency, and I will choose roughly a pot size turn barrel. 90%-120% of pot. I will continue on all bricks, all straight cards (even if they make me a pair...that pair has no real showdown value and is much better for OUR range). all diamonds. Basically the only cards I would not fire turn are Kx (check call a bet) or Ax (check fold to a bet) or pairing the 7 (just a bad card for what we are repping....removes so many of our 2 pair combos and emboldens the overpairs now that they have 2 pair)

If I am called on my turn barrel I am basically giving up on most rivers unless I hit my hand....or if the perfect bluff card comes (say the turn is the 8c and he calls my pot sized bet. I'm giving up but if the river is the 4c bringing in the backdoor flush draw and a 4 card straight, then maybe I will barrel off and turn my 4th pair into a bluff. but for most runouts giving up river unless I hit.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Nope there is no UTG at 6max, the first position is LJ LowJack

Wow that is a very interesting choice by 6 max players to classify it as LJ instead of UTG.

What would the benefit be to doing so?

Is it because the game plays with a much wider range from 1st position so it is to remind players to think of it as a LJ range not a UTG range?

Or is it just the latest style thing?

Thank you for the lingo correction.

yes everton girl isapplying this concept/lingo correctly. people often refer to the first player to act as UTG, but it's much more effective and accurate to refer to their position relative to the button as this is the single biggest factor in determining their opening range.

so while there is always a first player to act....in 6 max there effectively is not an UTG.

to illustrate this concept....if we were talking about a heads up match....would we refer to the button as UTG?

 

[popstani]

Great play girl, I would play same like you

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

We often have the best hand. Check-call of course

 

[mara2259]

If you play these hands, then a very easy call. There are two more cards ahead, you have a holey straight draw and a backdoor flash. You can ignore the bank’s chances !?

:dancing2: