$5.50 NLHE MTT Bounty: Calling a river shove (100BB+ deep) with TPTK

[bkkblues99]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 32/8/1

poker stars, $4.90 Buy-in (45/90 blinds, 14 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 5,102 (56.7 bb)
BB: 8,228 (91.4 bb)
Hero (UTG+2): 11,867 (131.9 bb)
MP1: 3,146 (35 bb)
MP2: 4,386 (48.7 bb)
MP3: 5,008 (55.6 bb)
CO: 16,431 (182.6 bb)
BTN: 4,331 (48.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A

T

Hero raises to 225, 3 folds, CO calls 225, 2 folds, BB calls 135

Flop: (832) T

8

2

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 399, CO calls 399, BB calls 399

Turn: (2,029) 2

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets 2,029, BB folds, Hero calls 2,029

River: (6,087) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets 13,764 and is all-in,

Spoiler

Hero calls 9,200 and is all-in

Results: 24,487 pot
Final Board: T

8

2

2

7

Hero showed A

T

and lost (-11,867 net)
CO showed J

9

and won 24,487 (12,620 net)

I think I played this pretty bad. Specially with the turn check-call. And then it got even worse from there. In hindsight, I can't seem to find any value hands that Villain has that we beat. We are essentially bluff catching, which I don't see how it can be profitable with 110+ BB.

I had no specific reads on the villain. He was 32/8 (25 hands).

My question is how should I have played it (I realize that I made very bad river call, I am asking about the other aspects of the hand)?

 

[Nathan Smith]

I think the check call on the turn is where things went pear shaped - you are now calling a pot sized bet instead of just betting half pot yourself. I’m still learning but I would have just bet three times for value on this board (smaller sizing as a way of pot controlling) and fold to a 3bet on either turn or river. Villain can have sets/houses and a couple of trips. The only real bluffs you beat are the 16 combos of QJ.

 

[bkkblues99]

@Nathan, yea that seems to be a better line. At least we wouldn't get in this ugly spot in the river. That's why I think the big mistake was the turn check.


I was wondering if villain EVER value shoves there with a worse 10. The way it played out, with the turn check and him betting pot and hero flatting, I am not sure.

I am going to run this on equilab and see how much equity we have against his river shoves (Value+ worse value+bluffs). Will post it later today.

 

[bkkblues99]

Board: 2:diamond:8:spade:T:club: 2:heart: 7:club:
Equity Win Tie
UTG 72.97% 69.50% 3.47% { ATs }
CO 27.03% 23.55% 3.47% { 88, ATs, KTs, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, ATo, KTo, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }



I ran it by Equilab.

 

[ZenGreen]

Betting the turn but damn you dont usually expect to have to call a full pot bet here. Be curious to see if this player does the same thing if he misses the river. Thats a lot of chips for him to bet on the turn if he's not doing the same thing with bluffs on the river

 

[liuouhgkres]

you need to bet turn for value for sure. villains can have weaker tens, 8x and some draws. Yous should check some of weaker tens, like QTs, JTs. Once you check though, you can't fold to one bet, even if it is potbet, so call is good. On the river, it's straightforward fold, because you don't block straight. Call with JTs is better than with AT.

 

[TDTODDY]

Once there was a call on the turn, it's time to question where you really are w/ just top/top 2 pair. Did he hit a boat? The play is not bad...until the river. It's a tough spot to call all-in.

 

[Ambur]

Well i would check the turn (as played) only when i am planing to c/r.

As played i m not going to b/f the turn. I m going to b/r the turn, since villain range is wide overall (villain stats: 32/8 i assume you have fair amount of samples) and these part of range we beat on the turn most of time. Only hands which we are in a bad shape is pair hands, but those hands based on given statistics villain should be raisin preflop not calling (8% of range) plus this is bounty tourney. imo


But in general deep play, should narrow preflop range a bit EP plus early stage. imo But i do not blame to bet TAs preflop EP if you have some sort of a plan, but once again further streets you do not have position plus only good flop you are seeking is drawing type board. Ask yourselve a question: Do the villains possibly put you on the top pair hand on flop, based on given action ? And if not, what are you representing there ?? what part of your range?

 

[bkkblues99]

As played i m not going to b/f the turn. I m going to b/r the turn, since villain range is wide overall (villain stats: 32/8 i assume you have fair amount of samples)

This was exactly my plan. But I'll be honest, the Pot bet on the turn threw me off. In hindsight, his pot bet there is actually a clear sign of weakness (Not just referring to this hand, I am talking gen pop tendencies. Call flop bet to draw, miss the draw on the turn and if checked to, bet big trying to buy the pot).


But yea, the turn pot bet threw me off my plan. This was mistake number one. We should be raising that turn pot bet if we are planning to call river anyways.

Do the villains possibly put you on the top pair hand on flop, based on given action ? And if not, what are you representing there ?? what part of your range?

With that line of action, after the river check by me, I believe am rep-ing J10s+, 66-99, suited (spades) Broadways (AKs, AQs, AJs, KQs) {This line assumes that we C-bet back-doors multi-way}.


So yea, I get what you are saying completely. After the river, he is ahead of essentially my entire range (Excluding 77 & 88). So yea, his river shove is very nutted,

 

[bkkblues99]

On the river, it's straightforward fold, because you don't block straight. Call with JTs is better than with AT.

Completely agree

 

[bkkblues99]

Betting the turn but damn you dont usually expect to have to call a full pot bet here. Be curious to see if this player does the same thing if he misses the river. Thats a lot of chips for him to bet on the turn if he's not doing the same thing with bluffs on the river

I highly doubt this villain is "Balanced"

 

[ribbybruno]

I really think imo that Villain bet Pot on the Turn to get you to fold. Villain has no idea if you have top pair or bigger but Villain is trying to represent that by betting so large. Villain is the big stack and trying to be a bully on this hand.

 

[bkkblues99]

I really think imo that Villain bet Pot on the Turn to get you to fold. Villain has no idea if you have top pair or bigger but Villain is trying to represent that by betting so large. Villain is the big stack and trying to be a bully on this hand.

Yea very likely

 

[wilywiles]

From the looks of it in this situation, an over bet with a pair on the board and also a possible straight with the 78 10. so you have a marginally strong hand, meaning its enough to call a reasonable sized bet. What this looks like to me is that the villain is trying to use the fact that this bet makes no sense as a way to get you to call. The blinds are only at 45/90 so its wayyyyy too early to jeopardize your whole stack in such a marginal situation. Dont worry though, we've all been there. Ive made worse decisions

 

[bkkblues99]

From the looks of it in this situation, an over bet with a pair on the board and also a possible straight with the 78 10. so you have a marginally strong hand, meaning its enough to call a reasonable sized bet. What this looks like to me is that the villain is trying to use the fact that this bet makes no sense as a way to get you to call. The blinds are only at 45/90 so its wayyyyy too early to jeopardize your whole stack in such a marginal situation. Dont worry though, we've all been there. Ive made worse decisions

Yea. It's something I am working on it, rnages and spots with both overs shoving (as value and as bluffs) and calling shoves in the river (with a balanced and sensible range although this is very situation and player dependent).