Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 23/14/1.2

I have 125 hands on villain. I think I messed up the turn. I don't think I should bet, but I guess I was worried about equity denial of random overcards and then having to go into bluff catching mode on river.

However once I do bet turn I think I have too much equity to fold to his jam. Thoughts?

iPoker - 350/700 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 3.65 BB (VPIP: 18.95, PFR: 9.78, 3Bet Preflop: 3.13, Hands: 98)
BTN: 3.75 BB (VPIP: 61.29, PFR: 48.28, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 32)
SB: 29.98 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 14.05, 3Bet Preflop: 8.51, Hands: 125)
Hero (BB): 28.43 BB
UTG: 20.5 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
MP: 12.34 BB (VPIP: 9.23, PFR: 3.39, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 66)

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.27 BB) Hero has 9♠ 6♦

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.77 BB, 2 players) 7♠ 6♥ 3♦
SB bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Turn: (12.77 BB, 2 players) 8♥
SB checks, Hero bets 8.51 BB, SB raises to 23.85 BB,

I think I generally like the play all around, and yes...I don't think you can fold to his turn jam. You have to think you have at least 9 and possibly 12 outs here(14 BB to win another 43ish BB), and every so often you're going to be ahead as he'll have something like A5 of hearts. He definitely puts you in a very awkward spot with your specific hand.

firstly, fold pre, no point getting involved in this spot, save those 2 BB's for a better spot.

as played, it seems like a slightly painful fold, their line seems very weighted towards overpairs, personally I'd take the free river card and potentially call unimproved as a bluffcatcher, it'll also keep them honest in future BvB wars knowing you'll call them down lighter

fold preflop this garbage, don`t make weird situations like this
on turn you have equity so check behind

You seem to like check raising quite a lot, which I don't think is optimal. I much prefer a more straight-forward strategy of just betting a lot. I think checking back the turn is a nice option here. As played, it is a fold.

Originally Posted by skeptix

You seem to like check raising quite a lot, which I don't think is optimal. I much prefer a more straight-forward strategy of just betting a lot. I think checking back the turn is a nice option here. As played, it is a fold.

I didn’t check raise. I’m the BB he is the SB.

He check raised me

I'm not liking defending with 96o, but as played the odds are right for calling the jam.. if all you're facing is an overpair. Given that SB's range is probably pretty wide here I would take the chance that there isn't a set or a straight already on the board. If he has T9 then that's pretty unlucky for you.

Everyone is saying fold pre and ok fine I’m in agreement that 96o is a pretty marginal defend. Folding pre is one way to play it but vs typical players I think it’s still a barely ok defend. It doesn’t have to be +EV it just has to be better than folding.

This is one of those hands that the closer you are to the bubble or the more skilled the opponent it can be a fold...but I think it’s at worst close without those factors. For instance if you’re folding 96s or 97o or 68o here I think you’re giving away the farm

Anyways I think I messed up the turn. I think I should check back the turn.

Spoiler: he had KK. We got there on river but I didn’t love my play.

It would be curious to find out how often you come to grips with a chip leader with hands like 96o? Now, judging by the quote given by you, you sincerely believe that you have done a lot of preparatory work and good luck smiled to you, having a pair of 66 and also a straight draw is enough to risk the whole stack. What about the fact that the villain has JT ♥? Even just JT is nice. For now, you can win only bluffs.

You can't play poker assuming you are beat when you're check-raised. That's called a leak. You need to do the necessary calculations to realize what the long term implications are for your play - will it be profitable in the long term? Given the situation, villain isn't always going to have JT here. Long term it is a call.

As for checking versus betting the turn.. I don't think it would make much of a difference. You're going to see the river regardless of what bet villain makes. I doubt he will try trapping on that board with kings on the turn. (Yes, he did this time, but this is an odd play ). It's just the reality of having 69o on that turn.

1. I think preflop fold is ok.
2. Flop 10bb into the pot, so check-push is ok.
3. Turn bet fold

I have been working on my blind vs blind play recently so this is my current thinking on this hand.

I think the defend is fine a little wide against a 3x raise, definetly a call against a 2 or 2.5x raise.

On the turn what hands would we value bet vs bluff when we call the flop bet.

In this case I would not be sure if I am value betting or bluffing so that would lead me to check back in most cases.
So on the turn once you bet, you had to call about 15 to win a pot of 60 so you need 25% equity for the call. You almost centaily have that unless he is only shoving with overpairs+

Originally Posted by Jacki Burkhart

Everyone is saying fold pre and ok fine I’m in agreement that 96o is a pretty marginal defend. Folding pre is one way to play it but vs typical players I think it’s still a barely ok defend. It doesn’t have to be +EV it just has to be better than folding.

This is one of those hands that the closer you are to the bubble or the more skilled the opponent it can be a fold...but I think it’s at worst close without those factors. For instance if you’re folding 96s or 97o or 68o here I think you’re giving away the farm

Anyways I think I messed up the turn. I think I should check back the turn.

Spoiler: he had KK. We got there on river but I didn’t love my play.

I don't think it's like a mandatory fold or call pre. When I first saw it I thought "meh standard" but vs 3x open it's def okay to fold. If we think SB is pretty bad then I really like calling IP with anything remotely playable and this def qualifies.

I think it's a slight misnomer to say "This hand doesn't need to be +EV, just has to be better than folding." By definition, folding is an EV=0 action. I understand that you are sort of talking about your overarching strategy across all positions yadda yadda and we lose 1bb in the BB when we fold pre, but we still need to make some EV here if we call. We're choosing to put MORE money in the pot, not just the money that we're already forced to put in blindly. So we need to be able to recoup on that. I think the point is that you get a pretty okay price here EVEN vs a 3x open, so achieving a +EV or neutral EV outcome is very possible even with weak holdings.

I get that wasn't really the point of that post but I feel like people will see that, latch onto it, and start saying "we don't need to be +EV, just better than folding" without really getting it lol. That's obviously not you but this has been a pretty popular post so far and I kinda wanted to give my perspective on it... pardon my apparently never-ending love of precision.

Anyway. Flop is 100% standard.

Turn, I think I'm sorta in line with gabpoker's reasoning here so far as where this hand falls in our distribution. I do think there's some merit to an equity denial bet, but if we're going to do that with a subset of our holdings we should be betting smaller, not larger in this exact spot imo. Like I'm thinking we mostly want to deny equity to overcards. Maybe sometimes flush draws, but his strongest flush draws are pretty likely to barrel. So I think the result is that we don't benefit from going bigger with those holdings that we want to deny equity with.

I think an option here is to bet close to our entire range small, bc this board heavily favors us as the preflop caller, and it allows us to deny equity to SB's range, and more easily segment if he chooses to x/raise here. Maybe that's a little results oriented, but I kind of prefer that to having a check/bet big/bet small split here. Just my instinct here.

1. fold preflop;
2. check behind on the turn and will see the river.

Originally Posted by Jacki Burkhart

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 23/14/1.2

I have 125 hands on villain. I think I messed up the turn. I don't think I should bet, but I guess I was worried about equity denial of random overcards and then having to go into bluff catching mode on river.

However once I do bet turn I think I have too much equity to fold to his jam. Thoughts?

iPoker - 350/700 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
http://www.pokertracker.com

CO: 3.65 BB (VPIP: 18.95, PFR: 9.78, 3Bet Preflop: 3.13, Hands: 98)
BTN: 3.75 BB (VPIP: 61.29, PFR: 48.28, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 32)
SB: 29.98 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 14.05, 3Bet Preflop: 8.51, Hands: 125)
Hero (BB): 28.43 BB
UTG: 20.5 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
MP: 12.34 BB (VPIP: 9.23, PFR: 3.39, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 66)

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.27 BB) Hero has 9♠ 6♦

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.77 BB, 2 players) 7♠ 6♥ 3♦
SB bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Turn: (12.77 BB, 2 players) 8♥
SB checks, Hero bets 8.51 BB, SB raises to 23.85 BB,

I think the raise on the turn is a bit of a trouble raise because when he does come back over the top villain isn’t often enough doing as a bluff. Personally I like to check behind here and evaluate the river.
His range does contain many overpairs so a check would avoid this trouble spot here. Personally after the reraise I’d just fold and move on

Pre flop is pretty fine. I like to defend super wide in SB vs BB spot, even when the bet is 3bb. Also, the size of his bet sin't be a sign of strength or weakness so calling pre is fine.
Flop is good for your range, better then what it is for his range of hands. that being said, calling flop is again, pretty fine/standard.
Turn, V shuts down it seems, but there is no reason for you to bet, and if you bet, no reason to bet big.
If he has random 2 overs without a 9, he will fold to 30% pot bet, just the same as to a 65% pot bet. If you get re-raised you end up in a tough spot. That being said, smaller bet serves the same purpose as a big one, but your stack remains slightly more protected against re-raises/shoves.
Checking back turn would also be fine, and then evaluate river.
My thought process in these spots is something like:
-if I am ready to bet 65% and not checkback on the turn, then I might as well check back and call/raise river, or just check back river if I have the option.

Regardless, the way it was played, I would make a sigh call - you already invested half your stack, and ended up in a spot where you need to pay 14bbs to win 55bbs or something (if my math is correct), so you need about 25% and with open ender and a pair I think you are right there. My decision would maybe change depending on how close we are to the money/payjump.

Originally Posted by Jacki Burkhart

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 23/14/1.2

I have 125 hands on villain. I think I messed up the turn. I don't think I should bet, but I guess I was worried about equity denial of random overcards and then having to go into bluff catching mode on river.

However once I do bet turn I think I have too much equity to fold to his jam. Thoughts?

iPoker - 350/700 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
http://www.pokertracker.com

CO: 3.65 BB (VPIP: 18.95, PFR: 9.78, 3Bet Preflop: 3.13, Hands: 98)
BTN: 3.75 BB (VPIP: 61.29, PFR: 48.28, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 32)
SB: 29.98 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 14.05, 3Bet Preflop: 8.51, Hands: 125)
Hero (BB): 28.43 BB
UTG: 20.5 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
MP: 12.34 BB (VPIP: 9.23, PFR: 3.39, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 66)

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.27 BB) Hero has 9♠ 6♦

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.77 BB, 2 players) 7♠ 6♥ 3♦
SB bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Turn: (12.77 BB, 2 players) 8♥
SB checks, Hero bets 8.51 BB, SB raises to 23.85 BB,

Thank U 4 posting

Looking at all the player stats suggests that your mistake was calling the initial raise. Your V in this spot looks to be one of the better players on the table and with your skill set-position and stack size you can dump this hand and battle vs this V in better spots.
While picking up chips from the much weaker players on the table.

With your skill set you should hate getting knocked out even if the long term equity is correct.
Phil Helmuth does one thing right when playing tournaments he stays in them. You should too


Hope this helps