$.45 NLHE MTT: Cbet or Check on this board?

[tzuriel]

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

I remember reading to almost always check a flopped set. Does the texture here change that with 2 cards to a flush? Or should I not be worried about a flush here? I bet just over 1/2 pot. Too big? Don't bet at all? What is the optimal play in this situation? Flopping a set happens so rarely, I want to play them correctly when they do come around!

NL Holdem $0.41+$0.04 (500.00BB)
CO ($66950)
BTN ($181794)
HERO ($95455)
BB ($33261)
UTG ($23330)
HJ ($47135)

Dealt to Hero: Q♣ Q♥

UTG Folds, HJ Raises To $1175, CO Folds, BTN Calls $1100, HERO Raises To $4775, BB Folds, HJ Folds, BTN Calls $3600


Hero SPR on Flop: [7.92 effective]
Flop ($11450): 5♥ 4♥ Q♦
HERO Bets $6246 (Rem. Stack: $84434), BTN Folds

 

[Bnobob]

FLUSH DROW

betting 2x'3x would be right now if you are in a risky situation where bb's are important to bet 4x5x not to see the flush is the play to make.:angel:

 

[fundiver199]

Its always a little more difficult to get paid with top set rather than the other sets, because you block so many of the top pair combos, your opponents could have. But I still think, its fine to bet this flop for value. I would go a little smaller though like 1/3 of the pot to induce some ligther calls or even a bluff raise.

 

[zuker]

sometimes it should check that flop. we have top set and block some flashes with Qh.

 

[fundiver199]

sometimes it should check that flop. we have top set and block some flashes with Qh.

Thats true, and I will in fact sometimes check a flop like this. But betting has merits as well, and we need to remember, that its never a bad outcome, that our opponent fold, because then we win the hand, and we usually deny some equity. Lets say we check, and they check behind. The turn is 2h, we make a delayed C-bet, and now we get raised. We still have top set, and the third nut flushdraw as well, so we call. River is 10h, so now there is a 1-liner to a flush, and we have the third nut flush. We check, and our opponent moves all-in. We kind of hate life but decide to call it off, and on our way out of the tournament we just have time to see, that they busted us with Ah8c. If we had bet the flop, that hand would probably have gone away, and thats totally fine.

 

[leeroy818]

Tough board/hand to get value from as fundriver said. If villain does call the cbet, their range is probably more weighted towards a flush draw, so betting to protect against the flush probably shouldn't be the thought. When you bet half pot, villain needs 25% equity to continue. If they are on a flush draw, they have about 20% chance of making it, so I think the size is just about right to get those hands to continue. You could probably even get a call (or a raise!) with a bigger bet if villain holds an ace high flush draw as they might think they have additional outs when hitting the ace.
That said I would normally be looking to cbet slightly less than half pot here.

 

[cardplayer52]

There's a couple things to think about here. One you have the Qh. It blocks hands like AhQh KhQh and QhJh.

The other thing is it's better to raise lower set as opposed top set. If you had 44 here the villian is more likely to have hit top pair.

I don't really know the best way to play here. I tend to want to build the pot with strong hands. I don't think you need to worry too much about flush draws as you hold a heart. It really comes down to what range you put the villian on. Is he likely to open/call with suited connectors? If so he he still 3 times more likely to miss that flop. Does he take lots of stabs at pots? If so check/calling might be good for the flop. If the turn likely helped him bet on the turn.

 

[300HPGOD]

Most of the time that I 3 bet pre I also continuation bet and most villains usually know that as well. Villains should be peeling a card here with pocket pairs like 66-1010 knowing that we should be c betting our misses like AJ, AK, etc. I dont mind checking here but I would lean more to a check if the board was rainbow instead of 2 hearts. I say that not because I am worried about a flush hitting but it now brings in a lot of combos that will call my c bet where otherwise they would fold. Doubt many would float here with a backdoor draw but now with a pure flush draw most villains will call and some will tool out here and raise you and then of course we can raise or raise get it in depending on villains raise sizing.

As far as the c bet sizing as played I think overall the sizing is fine although I think betting slightly smaller is better for two reasons. It might induce a call a little more to bet a little less than half instead of a little less than over half and secondly some opponents still see an c bet size of less than half pot as weak for some reason and might raise it here. The chance of villain going nuts here imo diminishes the larger the c bet we make it and increases the smaller % of the pot we bet on the flop.

 

[tzuriel]

Most of the time that I 3 bet pre I also continuation bet and most villains usually know that as well. Villains should be peeling a card here with pocket pairs like 66-1010 knowing that we should be c betting our misses like AJ, AK, etc. I dont mind checking here but I would lean more to a check if the board was rainbow instead of 2 hearts. I say that not because I am worried about a flush hitting but it now brings in a lot of combos that will call my c bet where otherwise they would fold. Doubt many would float here with a backdoor draw but now with a pure flush draw most villains will call and some will tool out here and raise you and then of course we can raise or raise get it in depending on villains raise sizing.

As far as the c bet sizing as played I think overall the sizing is fine although I think betting slightly smaller is better for two reasons. It might induce a call a little more to bet a little less than half instead of a little less than over half and secondly some opponents still see an c bet size of less than half pot as weak for some reason and might raise it here. The chance of villain going nuts here imo diminishes the larger the c bet we make it and increases the smaller % of the pot we bet on the flop.

Great insights as always. Thanks!