$440 NLHE MTT: strange bets

[kanselau]

live torny $440 buy in

getting quite close to the bubble

blinds 1000/2000
everyone is short average stack is around 20k
we have 24k and villain in CO raises to 6k from a stack of 12 k
on the button we peel A10s.

Villain has been playing a normal TAG game .
SB BB has an average stack.

What does that bet mean ? Do we want to look villain up and invest half of our stack here?
I think if villain shoves we are justified in calling , but is he raising with a monster ?

 

[suby_rafael]

let it go

It could a highway robbery in progress but even if it is i would fold here because of the size of the raise and our hand strength and villian's image. He has given a clear indication that he is most likely committed so it is better to let it go rather than risking our stack with A10.

Well the bet could mean anything, sometimes a bet like that can put you off and it can force us into making bad decisions. so i think you should lay it down.

 

[hffjd2000]

I think he has a decent hand. That raise is actually a standard raise at the same time he knows he is pot committed next. We didnt invest anything on the pot so Ill safely fold here and go to the next hand.

 

[Scrover]

He's committed himself to the pot, I think he wants action because of the raise or maybe a bit deceptive. I would just be a bit marginal here and fold. If you feel like it, shove on him, but I wouldn't risk it myself with two other players behind that could wake up with a hand.

 

[hffjd2000]

Yeah I forgot Mr. Smallblind and Mr. Bigblind.
If one of them raise, what should we do? We are sandwich with an ATs.
Ill rather reserve my stack and pass the bubble first.

 

[kanselau]

Thanks for your replys
I figure if villain has got trash hes just shipping it . We have no fold equity and we would be better off folding .

 

[Arjonius]

Seems like it may matter what level of thinking is going on. At first glance, opener looks like he's strong and hoping for action when he makes it 3bb with only 3bb behind. But one might argue that if he thinks that's what the table will believe, he can consider this line with any hand he's willing to open.

 

[spiderman637]

He had put 50% of his stack and otherwise 6xBB that too at the bubble...He probably got a monster hand....Generally blind steal in that situation is generally done with 3xBB....but here as he rose 6xBB...he sure is committed to go allin and probably has a better hand or say Ace and a Face card...

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Seems like it may matter what level of thinking is going on. At first glance, opener looks like he's strong and hoping for action when he makes it 3bb with only 3bb behind. But one might argue that if he thinks that's what the table will believe, he can consider this line with any hand he's willing to open.

Yes, if he is a better player...he could be using the "I'm pot committed" trick with a less than stellar hand. Sometimes, if I go card dead when blinds get big, and I know my image is squeaky tight, I'll raise 30-40% of my stack with rags so that it looks super strong.

Either way, even if that's what he is doing you don't have a hand to be looking him up with...that is the power of that move...it is only a slight possibility that he is pot committing himself with a hand that anything but the top 5% of hands really crushes.

AT is a fine hand to shove with when you're short...it's a hand I'll almost never call a raise with, especially an all in. Also, the power of your position is negated as this will likely be over preflop or on the flop...deep stacked I might call a raise on the button with ATs because of position, but not here.

let it go.

 

[kanselau]

Yes, if he is a better player...he could be using the "I'm pot committed" trick with a less than stellar hand. Sometimes, if I go card dead when blinds get big, and I know my image is squeaky tight, I'll raise 30-40% of my stack with rags so that it looks super strong.

let it go.

So what do you do when you get shoved on after committing 40% of your stack. Snap call or snap fold?

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

So what do you do when you get shoved on after committing 40% of your stack. Snap call or snap fold?

Usually crying call if my hand has any equity (like 57suited or 68 off)
Because they must think I'm really strong, so they, in turn must be strong so I'm probably live with my rags.

The real problem and risk with this play is when I get flatted....gulp... If they lead I probably fold. If they check I have to jam regardless of flop texture.... But if I'm out of position (which is rare when I make this play). I probably have to open shove any flop....yikes

 

[Arjonius]

So what do you do when you get shoved on after committing 40% of your stack. Snap call or snap fold?

Barring pretty unusual circumstances / reads, you can't very well fold, as missjacki said. It's likely both options are -EV, but since you probably shouldn't try this play with hands that are easily dominated if shoved on, plus factoring in that you'll have no playability left after folding for 40% of your already small stack, calling rates to be the lesser of evils.

 

[1947kings]

That raise is actually a standard raise at the same time he knows he is pot committed next.*

Or wait for next hand.