$44 NL HE MTT: BB vs utg bluff on monotonous board

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Rajten

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villain 28 pr 13 3b 5 Cb 100

pokerstars, $40 + $4 - Hold'em No Limit - 35/70 (11 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/7256x8XOq

UTG: 6,159 (88 bb)
UTG+1: 6,974 (100 bb)
MP: 4,978 (71 bb)
MP+1: 6,272 (90 bb)
CO: 1,099 (16 bb)
BU: 4,693 (67 bb)
SB: 5,086 (73 bb)
BB (Hero): 11,136 (159 bb)

Pre-Flop: (193) Hero is BB with 9♥ Q♠
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to 175, 5 players fold, Hero calls 105

Flop: (473) T♠ 5♠ 2♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 237, Hero raises to 637, UTG+1 calls 400

Turn: (1,747) 8♥ (2 players)
Hero bets 1,400, UTG+1 calls 1,400

River: (4,547) Q♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 1,864, Hero calls 1,864

Probably check raising with Qs means I bluff here to much. Calling or folding on flop seem resonable, but I decided to put pressure. On turn when I picked up equity, I decided to cointinue applying pressure. On river I thought about all in, end up calling, which was optimistic. What do you think?
 
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feisas7991

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prob boarderline defend pre, but ofc its fine.
otf if you elect to xr go much bigger
as played bet on the river for value
Hope this helps and Good Luck!
 
eetenor

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villain 28 pr 13 3b 5 Cb 100

PokerStars, $40 + $4 - Hold'em No Limit - 35/70 (11 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/7256x8XOq

UTG: 6,159 (88 bb)
UTG+1: 6,974 (100 bb)
MP: 4,978 (71 bb)
MP+1: 6,272 (90 bb)
CO: 1,099 (16 bb)
BU: 4,693 (67 bb)
SB: 5,086 (73 bb)
BB (Hero): 11,136 (159 bb)

Pre-Flop: (193) Hero is BB with 9♥ Q♠
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to 175, 5 players fold, Hero calls 105

Flop: (473) T♠ 5♠ 2♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 237, Hero raises to 637, UTG+1 calls 400

Turn: (1,747) 8♥ (2 players)
Hero bets 1,400, UTG+1 calls 1,400

River: (4,547) Q♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 1,864, Hero calls 1,864

Probably check raising with Qs means I bluff here to much. Calling or folding on flop seem resonable, but I decided to put pressure. On turn when I picked up equity, I decided to cointinue applying pressure. On river I thought about all in, end up calling, which was optimistic. What do you think?
Our study point here is bet sizing and what hands are we trying to get to fold and when will those hands fold- how do we make it look like it could be value betting
We XR flop giving the in position player-4.3-1 odds they need only 20% ish equity to call-so not many folds on flop just the junk the V bet on flop
On turn we bet 1400 on a T high board would we do that with the nuts? 60% pot is 1050 would that not be a strong bet with the nuts and bluffs?
We bet 80% what are we targeting for value?
If the V has AA KK with the spade then we have to know this is a three barrel bluff-if we know it is three barrels that effects when we bet polarized-
 
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300HPGOD

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I think defending here is fine as deep as we are with a hand that at least some connectivity. I have been trying myself to defend more often especially when deep effective. On the flop we flop the flush draw and a backdoor straight draw so I wouldnt be going anywhere if I am defending here but I would also not look to bloat the pot. If villain is bluffing we have plenty of opportunities to take it away later and if they are on 10x or even larger we have some equity but I would not be looking to bloat the pot. My plan on this flop be out of position would be to check call to most sizings. Raising there gets worse stuff to fold which isnt bad necessarily since we could get some Ax non spades to fold that have no pairs but when we called its really bad. Its like we are charging ourselves more to draw with fold equity that is not much if we are facing a hand that is ahead of ours. Check calling is much better.

On the turn as played I guess you have to barrel here but I would go smaller. I would bet a sizing that would make it look like I am going for value where you make it a sizing that looks like you are trying to blow them off the pot. I would prefer a check call flop line which then on this turn I would probably check call again (within reason based on sizing) but I think you could potentially lead here too if you had check called flop. I like checking better and hoping for a check behind if you had played flop as a check call. Again, given the raise you made on the flop I think you have to either continue or check fold.

The river as played is probably a bet fold spot. The problem with checking is the 10x hands that villain could have should check back river and that would mean you leave a little value out there. Should villain be betting 10x here if I checked to? I would not think so and their Qx holdings, if any, would be better than your Q9 so I would not like facing a bet on this river. I think I like betting to target 10x and folding if I was raised but I really dont like the way you played the hand. I think you played it too fast and depending on the tendencies of villain, you will get looked up especially if you have played other hands like this and others at the table have seen what you have showdown.
 
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zipocool

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And what did the opponent end up with? UTG+1 raise still basically implies a pretty strong range, so given our flush draw with Q, I would play defense on the flop, I also don’t see the point in overclocking the pot on the turn, but on the river it already makes sense to put a blocking bet
 
RidaPKR

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I don't like your preflop call. QTo+ maybe. I like c/r on the flop but you should be able to stop bluffing on the turn if you miss your draw. It's a flop that doesn't necessarily hit your range out of position. Theoretically you have few 2s like 22 or A2s, you have few Tx like TT-T6s, most of your 5x you will have them 3bet bluff preflop like 85s, 75s, 65s. If you are facing a calling station that will never fold a pair or a spade, then caution is in order. In this case, you call your flush draw on two streets and you call the Q river.
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
I think, its fine to defend this hand to a 2,5BB raise in a game with antes. Maybe we can fold, if its on the final table, and we are a mid stack against a big stack, so that there are big ICM implications for us. But here we are basically playing in chip EV mode, because its early in the tournament. And while our hand certainly offer some reverse implied odds, we are paying 105 to win a pot of 473, which mean, we only need to realise a little more than 20% equity. If we look at this from a theoretical perspective, the opponent is almost certainly making a mistake by opening so small, and when he does, we can profitably defend almost any two cards. Maybe we need to fold total junk, but Q9o is not total junk.

Flop
I prefer check-calling this flop, the reason being, that you are drawing to a very obvious second best hand. When you raise, a lot of his range for continuing will contain either A of spades or K of spades, which put you in a reverse implied odds situation. If another spade comes, are you going to check-fold? Most likely not, and therefore you need to keep his range wide enough, that betting or check-calling with the third nut flush is still profitable.

Turn
As played barreling again seems fine.

River
Now you picked up some showdown value, and spots like these are always tricky. I think, most options are on the table here. You can block bet and fold, if he raise, trying to get called by JJ and TX. You can also check-fold if you think, this guy is basically never bluffing. Or you can check-call, as in fact you did. I dont think, this is terrible in any way, because he should have busted draws mainly with the naked ace of spades, and you are getting better than 3:1.
 
makisaa

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You are waiting for the flush, or for a three of a kind, or two pairs. None of them appeared and you are fighting with one pair. Ok, never mind!
 
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Rajten

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Thanks all for input, block bet on river seems most resonable, this time opponent got KK with spade.
 
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fundiver199

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Thanks all for input, block bet on river seems most resonable, this time opponent got KK with spade.
I think, this showdown also highlights, why this is not the kind of hand, we want to check-raise the flop with. When we are check-raising a draw on the flop, we usually refer to it as "semi-bluffing", and the whole idea behind that concept is, we have equity. But here you had almost no equity, since your only way to win the hand was for some perfect runner-runner to give you a straight, two pair or trips, while not at the same time putting another spade on the board.

Sure running into KK with K of spades or AA with A of spades is a bit unlucky. But he can also have a flopped A or K high flush, which would have you drawing completely dead. So I think, you are putting in way to many chips with a very bad hand. For me the more prudent line is check-call flop, check-fold turn, if he keep on firing. Or even just check-fold flop and avoid this spot completely, even though its a bit on the tight side.
 
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