$4.40 NLHE Tourmanent: When should i have folded?

[tonelise]

Hello i was hoping for some insight on this hand since i'm kinda newbie to the game
First the hand:
ca 40 left of 180 starters in the tournament.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 4.4 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 (t10165)
MP3 (t7655)
CO (t2040)
Button (t4280)
SB (t1950)
Hero (BB) (t4770)
UTG (t10180)
UTG+1 (t1637)
MP1 (t9478)

Hero's M: 15.90

Preflop: Hero is BB with J

, A

UTG bets t800, 3 folds, MP3 calls t800, 3 folds, Hero calls t600

Flop: (t2500) J

, 8

, 3

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t1000, MP3 calls t1000, Hero calls t1000

Turn: (t5500) 4

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 bets t1000, Hero calls t1000, UTG calls t1000

River: (t8500) 9

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t2000, MP3 raises to t4855 (All-In), Hero calls t1970 (All-In), UTG calls t2855

Total pot: t20180

The two players who was against me semed pretty aggressive (hadn't played the table for long so was just a small impression). although their bidding might indicate AA or KK, i was pretty sure this wasn't so. I had serious doubts about calling the two 1k bids but when the showdown began my curtain was down and i just called. Until the last 9 showed up my hand was the best, but i probably should have folded before. So my q is: when should i have folded? (Nevermind the the two opponents way of bidding)

 

[Debi]

Will move this to tournament and change the thread title.

Also - when looking for analysis it is best to leave out the results of each street until you get feedback.

 

[Irexes]

First of all posting and analysing Hand histories is absolutely the best way to improve. There's people who've been playing years that haven't worked that out so you're a step ahead there.

As dakota says best to leave out the results so you can get feedback without it being affected by knowing the outcome (the outcome of the hand is actually irrelevant in analysing the action).

The way this hand played out rather than folding I think you should have shoved your money in on the turn.

Preflop you are getting a reasonable price to call, so fine there.

You hit the flop but if you reraise or shove the flop you are making most if not all worse hands fold and getting called by any hand that beats you.

The 4 on the turn is a great card as it shouldn't have helped anyone. The action on the turn indicates they are both weak and at this point it's best to try and take it there and hope for a call by someone who can't let go of a weaker hand.

As you played it, it's a pretty horrid situation. You are getting a great price to call with top pair top kicker though the action indicates someone (probably utg) has improved.

 

[dufferdevon]

Irexes pretty much said it all. The only thing I will add is after calling the flop bet, you have now committed most of your stack to this hand. The turn is the time to get all your chips in as played. I still think you get called by anyone who has Q-T and J-9 and you would have still lost the hand. But you need to get your chips in when you have the best of it.

The other thing I was thinking was to fold preflop:

1. You are looking at a raise of 4x BB UTG and a call before you act. Yes you are getting a good price but if an Ace hits the board, do you think you are still good?
2. Both of the stacks you are up against have you covered, so lose this and you could be gone.
3. You will be out of position for the rest of the hand.

 

[tonelise]

Thx for reply
Making my stand after the 4 on the turn makes perfectly sense, i should have realised that after this there would most likely be no turning back, and either fold or go all in.
One thing i don't understand is why you say i would most likely get called by Q-10, isn't it like 16% chance for success or so?

 

[Jillychemung]

You will find a lot of players that will call an AI while holding a gutshot w/ 1 over

 

[Xaras23]

i think you should made raise on the flop! you had top pair with top kicker! you must transmite a agressive style on the table!

 

[Implied Odds3]

I think you should have shoved the turn, but i also see the case for folding preflop because you would be oop against aggressive players.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

shove flop (checkraise all-in) - this is a $4 - you will get value from JT+/T9 which is all you need. you should definitely be all-in by the turn - calling off over half your stack is invariably silly because once you have done so you should pretty much never be subsequently folding.

 

[RunnerRunnerMissedDraw]

One thing i don't understand is why you say i would most likely get called by Q-10, isn't it like 16% chance for success or so?

I saw that and was a little confused by that post. I personally don't see QT being in this hand. Would be very strange for QT to call/or make the preflop raise, and then stick around for the flop bet. It may be a $4 donkfest, but your at Level III, so I would give Villains some credit here...

Anyway, most of the posts are good. Just a few things:

I can see a fold preflop. AJs is sexy, but dangerous hand, you have an UTG raiser, and 1 caller, as already posted. No crime in folding here. Though I wouldn't. You have to call 600 to win 2500, better than 4:1.

So my q is: when should i have folded?

Humm, why do you want to fold? Or I guess if you are asking, then preflop. What you should be asking is "How do I win this hand?". You may be doomed to lose no matter what you do, but you should try to win this hand on the flop. Shoving taint that bad, as on the flop you have 4k left and the pot is 2.5k, and 2 villains in the wings. Check/calling is the worst thing you can do. It serves no purpose other than spewing more chips into a pot and gaining no info. Ok, check/folding is the worst...

I would lead into this flop. Yep, the ole donkbet(though nothing donkey about it), used to be called "Betting into a Raiser", but is now called a donkbet. Anyway, bet 1800-2000, on the flop, take control of the hand, and see what the other 2 do. This leaves you 2k behind, which sucks, but lets you get away from hand. If they fold, super, scoop the 2.5k and move on. If 1 or 2 calls, well, when the Turn 4s drops, shove the rest.

If 1 or 2 comes screaming over the top of you, you have 2 choices, fold and have 2k left, boohoo, or call, hoping it is a Hero call and you have the best. Also, someone did mention a check-raise allin on the flop, which is not a bad play either...

 

[tonelise]

ah really sorry, i thought i had posted everything in my original post.
The opponents had QT and J9, exactly as dufferdevon's teori

 

[beechleaf]

push post flop is best i think if there going too try and out draw dont let it go for cheap