$4.40 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: tiny bluff on the river

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serna

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https://www.weaktight.com/h/5cd561e9d39043c00c8b4807
I decided to bet on the flop given that both I had a lot of backdoors and also fold equity and on the turn I decided to continue barreling,targeting his 2 some ace high and I turned to gutshot on the turn. On the river I made 32% pot bet targetting his miss flushes and some sticky 2.What do you think about how this hand was approched?
 
SuzdalDEcor

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Your line is not similar to anything except bluff. I would have play check-call here with Jack-high+, because you're representing is only K8.
 
zekubiki

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bad three-barreling in position of big blind. just check behind and fold on potential bet on the turn.
 
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serna

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Your line is not similar to anything except bluff. I would have play check-call here with Jack-high+, because you're representing is only K8.
When I bet small on the river it is still possible that I value bet some kx
 
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serna

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bad three-barreling in position of big blind. just check behind and fold on potential bet on the turn.
Thank you for answer I appreciate it but could you tell me your reasons too?
 
Sean Pilgrim

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I mean they're right. The line is bad but, without explaining why the line is bad won't help you grow as a poker player.

Preflop folds to SB (BvB situation)
When SB Limps and you're holding 63o you have two options, Check to see a flop and play very passively or go ahead and 3x pre-flop to represent a stronger BB range. Limping range of SB is very wide and we can usually exploit a limp very easily and not have to see a flop since they should open raise all broadways, all pocket pairs, most mid suited connectors, etc. so most times we can ignore a strong range from such a bad limp.

Villain dependent information based on your HUD and hand history should give you an indicator if they're the type to trap. If they're tight, loose, etc. This information not provided for this hand, as played I'm assuming they have a high VPIP and are a calling station.

Flop: Kd 2h 8h
SB Checks to us. I prefer a check back here as played, sure we have a couple back doors but only the back door straight is of any value to us because the flush would be too weak to call a river bet with anyway. Betting half pot doesn't do anything except inflate the pot and give 4 to 1 odds for villain to call with bottom pair, if our goal is to get villain to fold to a flop bet 1/4 and 1/3 pot works just as effectively. If we had taken the preflop line of 3x villains limp, then there are a lot more strong kings, pocket pairs, broadways, etc in our range. Where a C-bet would make sense for a fold to villain with a lot of kings in our range. With the line that's taken, you will get floated a lot in this spot.

Turn: 5c
SB Checks to us in BB. We have a gut shot now. If we had checked back flop we most likely see SB check this turn as well and we can check behind. I wouldn't necessarily hate a turn bet when it's been checked to us twice in this spot but, as played this pot should really never get so inflated. Instead we bet half-pot again when with the line taken we should check back since they called our flop bet. Their continuing range when they call on the flop crushes our six high. I'm assuming a double barrel/triple barrel half pot line may be a leak in your game, anyone's HUD will show these stats, I don't understand how you get called down here with bottom pair to be honest unless you always bet flop and turn when checked to.

Alternate, scenario if we 3x SB limp and C-bet flop 1/4 or 1/3 pot, we size up a turn C-bet to 2/3 or 3/4 pot, it's really hard for 2nd, 3rd, 4th pair hands to continue and makes it harder for flush draws to call as you're not giving them correct pot odds to continue.

River: 8c
SB checks to us again. If SB calls flop and turn c-bets the best case scenario we can hope for here is a busted flush draw when we bet. As played this pot should have never really exceeded the 628 it was on the flop and easy check/fold flop, check/fold turn, check/fold river.

Alternate scenario, Line taken 3x pre, c-bet flop 1/4-1/3, 2/3-3/4 turn bet...pot sized bet on river. If you're going to air ball bluff this line works way better than half-pot bets.

Half pot bets I seldom use unless I'm trying to size up the pot for a turn or river pot sized jam. You don't relay any information and you don't receive any information when you bet half pot or your villains call half pot bets. You get much more information when your sizing down to 1/3 and 1/4 or up to 2/3 3/4. Your villain will polarize their range when you adjust your bet sizing, plus you don't unnecessarily inflate pots without getting more information especially in this scenario.

Hope this makes sense, if you want clarification on anything here let me know.
 
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You have good reasons for all of your actions, so I like it. Just make sure you're not finding reasons to bet too often.
 
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serna

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I mean they're right. The line is bad but, without explaining why the line is bad won't help you grow as a poker player.

Preflop folds to SB (BvB situation)
When SB Limps and you're holding 63o you have two options, Check to see a flop and play very passively or go ahead and 3x pre-flop to represent a stronger BB range. Limping range of SB is very wide and we can usually exploit a limp very easily and not have to see a flop since they should open raise all broadways, all pocket pairs, most mid suited connectors, etc. so most times we can ignore a strong range from such a bad limp.

Villain dependent information based on your HUD and hand history should give you an indicator if they're the type to trap. If they're tight, loose, etc. This information not provided for this hand, as played I'm assuming they have a high VPIP and are a calling station.

Flop: Kd 2h 8h
SB Checks to us. I prefer a check back here as played, sure we have a couple back doors but only the back door straight is of any value to us because the flush would be too weak to call a river bet with anyway. Betting half pot doesn't do anything except inflate the pot and give 4 to 1 odds for villain to call with bottom pair, if our goal is to get villain to fold to a flop bet 1/4 and 1/3 pot works just as effectively. If we had taken the preflop line of 3x villains limp, then there are a lot more strong kings, pocket pairs, broadways, etc in our range. Where a C-bet would make sense for a fold to villain with a lot of kings in our range. With the line that's taken, you will get floated a lot in this spot.

Turn: 5c
SB Checks to us in BB. We have a gut shot now. If we had checked back flop we most likely see SB check this turn as well and we can check behind. I wouldn't necessarily hate a turn bet when it's been checked to us twice in this spot but, as played this pot should really never get so inflated. Instead we bet half-pot again when with the line taken we should check back since they called our flop bet. Their continuing range when they call on the flop crushes our six high. I'm assuming a double barrel/triple barrel half pot line may be a leak in your game, anyone's HUD will show these stats, I don't understand how you get called down here with bottom pair to be honest unless you always bet flop and turn when checked to.

Alternate, scenario if we 3x SB limp and C-bet flop 1/4 or 1/3 pot, we size up a turn C-bet to 2/3 or 3/4 pot, it's really hard for 2nd, 3rd, 4th pair hands to continue and makes it harder for flush draws to call as you're not giving them correct pot odds to continue.

River: 8c
SB checks to us again. If SB calls flop and turn c-bets the best case scenario we can hope for here is a busted flush draw when we bet. As played this pot should have never really exceeded the 628 it was on the flop and easy check/fold flop, check/fold turn, check/fold river.

Alternate scenario, Line taken 3x pre, c-bet flop 1/4-1/3, 2/3-3/4 turn bet...pot sized bet on river. If you're going to air ball bluff this line works way better than half-pot bets.

Half pot bets I seldom use unless I'm trying to size up the pot for a turn or river pot sized jam. You don't relay any information and you don't receive any information when you bet half pot or your villains call half pot bets. You get much more information when your sizing down to 1/3 and 1/4 or up to 2/3 3/4. Your villain will polarize their range when you adjust your bet sizing, plus you don't unnecessarily inflate pots without getting more information especially in this scenario.

Hope this makes sense, if you want clarification on anything here let me know.
thank you your reasons helped me
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Preflop: I am often rasising this hand as a bluff over the limp. When picking your BB iso raising range you want to pick strong hands that are obviously value and weak hands that are tough to extract value from in the traditional ways. That being said....I'm not raising here 100% of the time. probably 50/50. you could use a clock based randomizer or a suit based randomizer to help you decide. All that being said....checking is totally fine.

flop: I am often going to stab at this flop and I'll often choose a size about like yours. checking back has merits vs tricky villains and betting is probably better vs straightforward villains. as a default if I don't know how they play I probably assume they are not too tricky and I bet.

Turn: We need to give up on a lot of turn cards....but I think this is actually a good one to barrel. but we need to make a plan. we have 2 ways to appraoch this hand. we can check back turn and hope to either make a pair or a straight and possibly go for value on river. OR we can barrel whether we hit our draw or not. (only exception is if we river a weak pair we can check back the river). if we choose the 2nd option (which I will often choose) we need to choose big sizings that will put pressure on villain's stack. If I decide to take the Barrel route I am going to bet about 70% pot on turn (about 1,000)

River: in the event that I choose the barrel line and bet large on turn I am also betting large or about 70% pot on river (2,500).

This should get most hands except good kings to fold. (and most good kings would have not limped preflop).

I like to barrel....I'm probably barreling here. here is the thing about choosing to barrel...don't lose heart! if you are making a play then execute it fearlessly. make it very uncomfortable for them to hero you down with 2nd pair (much less bottom pair). if they call you down then good for them....but playing aggressively and fearlessly like this is also what gets you paid when you make a hand.
 
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sirrupetot

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..check river ....bad card 2 bluff..and if he is sticky he won't fold
 
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