$4.40 NLHE MTT: Am I being too passive OOP

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 25/11/7

I've often thought this was a big problem, OOP I tend to prefer check/calling instead of bet/folding. I thought this hand was a decent example of this. I appreciate the pre flop open was a bit loose, but this is obviously a decent flop but a questionable turn for me. Villain could float here a ton (I haven't seen what how often he floats, but he is fairly aggro post flop). The question I'm asking here is more should I be bet folding these spots, or does villain bet his draws or pairs like 99/88/77 enough that check calling is profitable and preferable to bet folding. Also, if we bet and he calls, what the plan on the river if a diamond comes or we don't improve? Check call and let him bet his draws? I've gone on enough, here's the hand:

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 4.4 Tournament, 20/40 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

CO (t7095)
Button (t2600)
SB (t2985)
BB (t3400)
UTG (t2955)
Hero (UTG+1) (t3615)
MP1 (t3000)
MP2 (t2965)
MP3 (t2765)

Hero's M: 60.25

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A

, 10

UTG calls t40, Hero bets t160, 3 folds, CO calls t160, Button calls t160, 2 folds, UTG calls t120

Flop: (t700) 10

, 3

, 4

(4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t480, CO calls t480, 2 folds

Turn: (t1660) K

(2 players)

Hero???

 

[baudib1]

Fold pre, bet/fold turn.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Standard Baudib response lol.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Standard Baudib response lol.

Honestly it's exact same as what I was thinking (or would think of writing).
But I'll write this instead:
Definitely FOLDING preflop!

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

I know the hand posted is a fold pre for some, I acknowledged that in the post, I'm more looking at am I being too passive post flop in those kind of spots, not am I being too loose pre. I had a reason for opening that hand in that spot, so that street is irrelevant.

 

[baudib1]

The only problem with the turn is that he's going to fold a lot of his mid-pairs like 66-99 and possibly even worse Tx. I mean if he shows up with KT or floated with AK/KQ that's just unlucky but you should generally just treat the turn as a brick.

Pre is pretty monumentally bad, I don't think it's a minor issue. If you don't know what to do in this spot on the turn don't get to this point.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Why do you think it's monumentally bad? The table was pretty nitty, except for this guy and the BB. If the BB comes in, I have position on him, so the main guy we're worried about is the villain here. My image at the table so far was pretty tight as well.

I had a fairly good grasp on what to do in this spot, and I won a decent pot from it. If we think the turn is a brick and this guy is aggressive post flop, what's wrong with check calling if he's going to bet his draws here or 66-99 and let him hang himself?

Also betting the turn doesn't seem to achieve much to me, sure we can fold if he raises, but what if he just flats again? We get another tricky spot on the river, especially if another diamond comes. However, if we check and he checks behind, we can get value from a lot worse on the river, I think we get looked up by weaker tens enough and 66-99 because c-bet check turn and stab river doesn't look terribly strong.

 

[Tino11]

I know the hand posted is a fold pre for some, I acknowledged that in the post, I'm more looking at am I being too passive post flop in those kind of spots, not am I being too loose pre. I had a reason for opening that hand in that spot, so that street is irrelevant.

If you were to explain why you opened in that spot, your reasoning behind it, then we would all be in a better position to offer you good, solid advice. To say that street is irrelevant worries me, as all streets are an important part of any hand.

The fact you get into these kind of spots with marginal hands when OOP should be telling you something. I know thats not much help, but without some reasoning behind what you are doing, I cannot offer much more.

 

[baudib1]

It's monumentally bad because your hand is complete trash to play postflop OOP. Your logic shifts from street to street; if the table is so nitty, an UTG limping range has you crushed. Even at a nitty table there are enough hands behind you that you're not going to end up taking it down or isolating preflop very often. If the table is so nitty then villain isn't going to be bluffing his draws or worse pairs on the turn very often.

 

[duggs]

opponents can def be nitty pre flop and stationy post

 

[baudib1]

opponents can def be nitty pre flop and stationy post

Stationy is a whole helluva lot different from betting draws and worse pairs on the turn. In fact that would be a pretty good read on someone that isn't included in the OP.

 

[duggs]

Stationy is a whole helluva lot different from betting draws and worse pairs on the turn. In fact that would be a pretty good read on someone that isn't included in the OP.

not disagreeing with you in this case at all.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

If you were to explain why you opened in that spot, your reasoning behind it, then we would all be in a better position to offer you good, solid advice. To say that street is irrelevant worries me, as all streets are an important part of any hand.

The fact you get into these kind of spots with marginal hands when OOP should be telling you something. I know thats not much help, but without some reasoning behind what you are doing, I cannot offer much more.

Because I'm talking about these kind of spots in general. I would open AQ here and that wouldn't be "momumentally bad". Replace AT with AQ, the T with a Q and then it's essentially the same spot.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Any response to that?

 

[Poker Orifice]

Any response to that?

You're kidding... right?

 

[Foxhound3857]

Fold preflop, check-raise postflop. You have top pair, top kicker, and the only worry is an overpair or a diamond draw.

You really should have folded preflop from that position though. A10 is a trouble hand and I'm never comfortable with it unless I flop gin (straight, twopair, trips). If it's not good enough to raise with, it's likely not good enough to call with either. If it's suited I raise with it UTG, if not, it's a fold.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

You're kidding... right?

Not at all. Everyone seems hooked on me opening AT from EP, which I stated in my post was loose. I was asking for opinions on the passivity OOP and what we actually gain from betting here which as yet I've not got a response to.

 

[duggs]

Because I'm talking about these kind of spots in general. I would open AQ here and that wouldn't be "momumentally bad". Replace AT with AQ, the T with a Q and then it's essentially the same spot.

not the same spot imo, with AQ i would def bet 3 streets, even with the K on the turn,
A10 i probably bet/check/bet (on any river lower than 10)
river either for value if he checks behind or a blocker if he bets turn

bet/check/bet just gets called alot lighter cause it looks like you give up then take another stab.

different lines based on the number of weaker Qs/draws/jj/tt in range compared to weaker 10s

edit:didnt see flush draw on flop, bet 3 streets imo, bet/fold turn

2nd edit: or if you think he is bluffy/wouldnt call a 3rd barrel with alot of his range any way, but might bet it, you can check call on non diamonds. probably blocker bet small on diamond rivers