$30 NLHE MTT Rebuy: $30 NLHE MTT Rebuy: Was I right or wrong in these hands?

[TheMerchandiser]

Hello, I am new to this site and I am just back after playing my first live tournament in a while after an extended break from tournament poker. I prefer PLO but in this case I wish to discuss a number of hands I played in a NLHE tourney. Any advice, tips, suggestions would be much appreciated as I feel this is one of a number of ways I can improve my NLHE tournament poker game.

The first hand I am dealt JJ on the button and UTG makes it 2,500 with the blinds at 500/1,000 and 5 handed. I have 28,000 starting the hand. I believe I should have made it 7,500 or so but instead chose to flat. The flop comes K33 with 2 hearts and he bets 3,000. I call. The turn is a 9 and he bets 4,000 and I call. At this point I am putting him on a flush draw and have ultimately decided to call a non heart river. Low and behold, the river comes a non heart 8 and he bets what I perceive as a bluff 12,000. I call and he shows 99 for the turned house. I believe the right play is possibly make it 7,500 from the button and jam the flop?? or what do you guys think?

The second hand is also 5 handed, with 10 remaining in the tourney. I am dealt A4 suited UTG+1. The blinds are 800/1,500 and I have exactly 14,500 starting the hand. What do I do in this spot in your opinion?? What I actually did was raise to 4,500, got a call from the SB and the flop came Q97 rainbow. The SB bet 10k and I folded. After playing the hand I realised I actually didn't have a plan ready for if he came back over the top pre-flop etc. What do the theorists have to say about my play in this spot or what should I do? Ship? Fold? I am lost in this medium blind situation with the weak ace.

Finally, 5 handed at the FT, I am dealt A8 of hearts UTG+1. The blinds are 8,000/15,000 and I am stacking 83,000. Again, what is the optimum play here? Because I was completely lost in this situation. I open shipped and UTG+2 woke up with KK. But the previous hand was on my mind and I ultimately came up not knowing what was the right thing to do in either spot. So I immediately came on here and signed up, because I feel this is an area I need to improve on.

Apologies for the long winded opening rant but I hope someone out there can help me or point me in the right direction. How is that for a first post? Good? Bad? Too long. Complete rookie on forums here so all and any advice would be great.

Thanks.

TheMerchandiser

 

[beanstalk]

Title of this thread sounded really interesting, but scared to read the looooong paragraphs. Can you put your actual hand history up?

If you are feeling spry, make it look pretty too with this tool: http://www.handconverter.com/

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Hello, I am new to this site and I am just back after playing my first live tournament in a while after an extended break from tournament poker. I prefer PLO but in this case I wish to discuss a number of hands I played in a NLHE tourney. Any advice, tips, suggestions would be much appreciated as I feel this is one of a number of ways I can improve my NLHE tournament poker game.

The first hand I am dealt JJ on the button and UTG makes it 2,500 with the blinds at 500/1,000 and 5 handed. I have 28,000 starting the hand. I believe I should have made it 7,500 or so but instead chose to flat. The flop comes K33 with 2 hearts and he bets 3,000. I call. The turn is a 9 and he bets 4,000 and I call. At this point I am putting him on a flush draw and have ultimately decided to call a non heart river. Low and behold, the river comes a non heart 8 and he bets what I perceive as a bluff 12,000. I call and he shows 99 for the turned house. I believe the right play is possibly make it 7,500 from the button and jam the flop?? or what do you guys think?

The second hand is also 5 handed, with 10 remaining in the tourney. I am dealt A4 suited UTG+1. The blinds are 800/1,500 and I have exactly 14,500 starting the hand. What do I do in this spot in your opinion?? What I actually did was raise to 4,500, got a call from the SB and the flop came Q97 rainbow. The SB bet 10k and I folded. After playing the hand I realised I actually didn't have a plan ready for if he came back over the top pre-flop etc. What do the theorists have to say about my play in this spot or what should I do? Ship? Fold? I am lost in this medium blind situation with the weak ace.

Finally, 5 handed at the FT, I am dealt A8 of hearts UTG+1. The blinds are 8,000/15,000 and I am stacking 83,000. Again, what is the optimum play here? Because I was completely lost in this situation. I open shipped and UTG+2 woke up with KK. But the previous hand was on my mind and I ultimately came up not knowing what was the right thing to do in either spot. So I immediately came on here and signed up, because I feel this is an area I need to improve on.

Apologies for the long winded opening rant but I hope someone out there can help me or point me in the right direction. How is that for a first post? Good? Bad? Too long. Complete rookie on forums here so all and any advice would be great.

Thanks.

TheMerchandiser

I agree with beanstalk - a converted hand history would be nice, but since it's live I understand why you just put it in words.

First hand: I don't really like flatting the JJ here, even in position. Are we set-mining here? I don't think this makes any sense to do unless you have a really strong read that he's ONLY raising UTG with a hand that we'd only want to set-mine against. And even then it's sketchy. The problem with JJ is that when he's shown strength PF, and we see paint on the flop, it can be pretty hard to know where we stand. As played PF, I don't really like the passive line, because your M is too low. I have mixed feelings, but depending on reads, I may be folding here. But again, I don't like the preflop play. With 28 bb starting the hand, I'm not looking to play a lot postflop with JJ.

Second hand: This is NOT a "medium blind" situation. With only 10 bb left, unless everyone at your table has fewer chips than us, we should be looking to ship it in. And even if we'd rather not ship but still want to raise, we definitely don't want to be preflop raising 1/3 of our stack unless we're shipping it in on the flop regardless of our holdings, in the hopes of getting more fold equity. As played, I think you had no choice but to fold the flop, but this was a really poor PF decision.

Last hand: This is not an easy spot, but again, with fewer than 6bb, I think shipping makes a lot of sense here. 5-handed, UTG+1, I think you have to go for it. It would be better if we knew what the other stack sizes were at the table, since this is an extremely important part of the decision at this point. But I think in most circumstances I am also shipping here - 6bb is almost nothing to work with, and A8s is strong to at least give you a fighting chance if someone calls you down light.

Overall, I think you need to work on your preflop play, because this will save you chips in the long-run. Try not to get into situations where you're forced to make tricky decisions on the flop (2nd hand).

Sorry for the length of the post - ended up rivaling yours! But yeah, hope that helps, and welcome to CC!

 

[Jillychemung]

What was the payout structure???

1st hand I def 3-bet unless UTG has shown to be a big nit. Since it is 5-handed you should have a read on him by now. Was the 2.5x open usual? What had he shown down from EP opens?

2nd hand, shove or fold based on reads of those behind and payout structure. I tend to fold this most times.

3rd hand, see 2nd hand.

 

[Pascal-lf]

hand 1 seems fine to flat unless he's been super active, i'm probably calling flop then folding turn - on that board what does he expect you to fold on the turn that you call on the flop? so he won't be bluffing much

hand 2 is really horrible, it's just spew. fold pre.

hand 3 is an easy open shove 5 handed

 

[duggs]

hand 1 seems fine to flat unless he's been super active, i'm probably calling flop then folding turn - on that board what does he expect you to fold on the turn that you call on the flop? so he won't be bluffing much

hand 2 is really horrible, it's just spew. fold pre.

hand 3 is an easy open shove 5 handed

agree that readless hand one seems fine pre. prob folding turn without info

Hand 2 is 5 handed aswell, and a super easy shove pre from UTG+1/CO

Hand 3 should be an shove pre

 

[Pascal-lf]

misread hand 2,thought it was FR

if it's 5 handed then it's a shove, unless anyone else is very short

 

[duggs]

i shove it into anyone 4bb or less def because they are committed to call wide and i can chip up.

 

[Pascal-lf]

if someone's that short then it's probably a fold for ICM reasons

 

[duggs]

guessing from the starting stack and stack sizes throughout this isnt a big tourney so may only pay top 3-4. so ICM wouldnt apply?

 

[Pascal-lf]

still applies, especially if 4 paid

 

[WiZZiM]

yah, hand#1 3bet(why are we flatting vs a hijack open?) then shove the others..

ICM applies anywhere near the final table usually. But i don't think i'd fold too much in hand 2, we can't really afford to get put through the blinds again especially since there is likely antes in play OP forgot to mention. if a guy is that short, then it doesn't worry us as much in regards to ICM, however our hand really doesn't play that well in all in situations. Just really depends on the other stack dynamics.

 

[Pascal-lf]

first hand, UTG opens not HJ?

2nd hand easy for antes not to be in play when he doesnt mention them seeing as this is live

 

[WiZZiM]

"The first hand I am dealt JJ on the button and UTG makes it 2,500 with the blinds at 500/1,000 and 5 handed" basically the hijack if i'm not mistaken, which makes this an easy 3bet for me. Not saying flatting is bad or anything since our stack size is so low and we have position + reads from live tells (if any), but i think 3betting is a hell of a lot easier, and we can happily call off a shove i think (could be mistaken there).

Missed the part about being live.

 

[Pascal-lf]

**** my bad, easy 3bet call then yeah

 

[TheMerchandiser]

Wow, thanks so much for all the responses guys. I think I over thought hands 2 and 3, from reading everyone's input here I see that it makes sense given the blinds and stack sizes to shove. Can I just ask where is the cut-off point for shoving medium-weak aces blind wise? For example, 15 BB's+, 20 BB's+. Hand 3 where I shoved the A8 I ran into KK, so then I was thinking maybe I had played it wrong. But seriously, thanks so much for feedback, and next time I will put up hands the way beanstalk suggested with the hand converter!!

 

[TheMerchandiser]

I agree with beanstalk - a converted hand history would be nice, but since it's live I understand why you just put it in words.

First hand: I don't really like flatting the JJ here, even in position. Are we set-mining here? I don't think this makes any sense to do unless you have a really strong read that he's ONLY raising UTG with a hand that we'd only want to set-mine against. And even then it's sketchy. The problem with JJ is that when he's shown strength PF, and we see paint on the flop, it can be pretty hard to know where we stand. As played PF, I don't really like the passive line, because your M is too low. I have mixed feelings, but depending on reads, I may be folding here. But again, I don't like the preflop play. With 28 bb starting the hand, I'm not looking to play a lot postflop with JJ.

Second hand: This is NOT a "medium blind" situation. With only 10 bb left, unless everyone at your table has fewer chips than us, we should be looking to ship it in. And even if we'd rather not ship but still want to raise, we definitely don't want to be preflop raising 1/3 of our stack unless we're shipping it in on the flop regardless of our holdings, in the hopes of getting more fold equity. As played, I think you had no choice but to fold the flop, but this was a really poor PF decision.

Last hand: This is not an easy spot, but again, with fewer than 6bb, I think shipping makes a lot of sense here. 5-handed, UTG+1, I think you have to go for it. It would be better if we knew what the other stack sizes were at the table, since this is an extremely important part of the decision at this point. But I think in most circumstances I am also shipping here - 6bb is almost nothing to work with, and A8s is strong to at least give you a fighting chance if someone calls you down light.

Overall, I think you need to work on your preflop play, because this will save you chips in the long-run. Try not to get into situations where you're forced to make tricky decisions on the flop (2nd hand).

Sorry for the length of the post - ended up rivaling yours! But yeah, hope that helps, and welcome to CC!

I completely agree with hand 1, JJ is so strong that I should be 3 betting all the time here. Especially when 5 handed my range is pretty wide from the button.

You're right with hand 2, should have said low blind situation and I agree again that I should have open shipped. I gave him the chance to crack me when I should have just got it all in and not have had a decision to make on the flop. And same applies to hand 3, glad you cleared that up.

Funny thing is I should know my pre-flop play dictates decisions post-flop because I play a lot of PLO where pre-flop starting hands are crucial. So i'm definitely going to do some work on this end. Thanks again Scourrge!!

 

[TheMerchandiser]

What was the payout structure???

1st hand I def 3-bet unless UTG has shown to be a big nit. Since it is 5-handed you should have a read on him by now. Was the 2.5x open usual? What had he shown down from EP opens?

2nd hand, shove or fold based on reads of those behind and payout structure. I tend to fold this most times.

3rd hand, see 2nd hand.

Payout structure was 1st - €1,000, 2nd €500 3rd €300

The 2.5x was standard, but he had not opened from early position as far as I could recall. My problem was I just didn't know where I was, and therefore I completely agree with the 3 bet being the best approach. Would you shove those hands based on payout structure now?

 

[TheMerchandiser]

hand 1 seems fine to flat unless he's been super active, i'm probably calling flop then folding turn - on that board what does he expect you to fold on the turn that you call on the flop? so he won't be bluffing much

hand 2 is really horrible, it's just spew. fold pre.

hand 3 is an easy open shove 5 handed

What in your opinion is the difference between hands 2 and 3 with regard to shoving and folding? Why do I shove the A8 5 handed and fold the A4?

 

[TheMerchandiser]

hand 1 seems fine to flat unless he's been super active, i'm probably calling flop then folding turn - on that board what does he expect you to fold on the turn that you call on the flop? so he won't be bluffing much

hand 2 is really horrible, it's just spew. fold pre.

hand 3 is an easy open shove 5 handed

Just read the rest of the posts after your last one, ha. Is the A4 an easy shove so with regard to pay out etc.?

 

[Jillychemung]

What was the payout structure???

2nd hand, shove or fold based on reads of those behind and payout structure. I tend to fold this most times.

3rd hand, see 2nd hand.

Payout structure was 1st - €1,000, 2nd €500 3rd €300

The 2.5x was standard, but he had not opened from early position as far as I could recall. My problem was I just didn't know where I was, and therefore I completely agree with the 3 bet being the best approach. Would you shove those hands based on payout structure now?

Yes based on the payout structure I have no problems with shoving these 2 hands.

 

[Pascal-lf]

What in your opinion is the difference between hands 2 and 3 with regard to shoving and folding? Why do I shove the A8 5 handed and fold the A4?

the raise with the A4 was the spew, 3x'ing off that stack is just not good

 

[recoveryagent]

1st hand its either shove or fold for me assuming only 2 in the hand.once the k33 came i would have folded. him betting 2500 told me hes commited to his hand not the pot.i feel the way it went after the flop was a race and he won on the turn.2nd hand i would have limped in then folded if he came over the top.3rd hand i would have limped in too depending if a flush draw was floped or not gives option to fold or call him coming over the top.i really like to see the flop.i fold alot of ace rags.but at final tables push comes to shove with any ace will do aggresiveness.

 

[Poker Orifice]

1st hand its either shove or fold for me assuming only 2 in the hand.once the k33 came i would have folded. him betting 2500 told me hes commited to his hand not the pot.i feel the way it went after the flop was a race and he won on the turn.2nd hand i would have limped in then folded if he came over the top.3rd hand i would have limped in too depending if a flush draw was floped or not gives option to fold or call him coming over the top.i really like to see the flop.i fold alot of ace rags.but at final tables push comes to shove with any ace will do aggresiveness.

OP, please don't do this ^

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I completely agree with hand 1, JJ is so strong that I should be 3 betting all the time here. Especially when 5 handed my range is pretty wide from the button.

You're right with hand 2, should have said low blind situation and I agree again that I should have open shipped. I gave him the chance to crack me when I should have just got it all in and not have had a decision to make on the flop. And same applies to hand 3, glad you cleared that up.

Funny thing is I should know my pre-flop play dictates decisions post-flop because I play a lot of PLO where pre-flop starting hands are crucial. So i'm definitely going to do some work on this end. Thanks again Scourrge!!

Glad to offer what I can. Best of luck at the tables. Cheers!