$3 NLHE STT: Whats your plan and why?

[jbbb]

So whats best here?

• Raising all-in for max fold equity, but only getting called when crushed.
• Raising to ~330-350 and folding to a shove
• Raising to ~330-350 and snapping a shove?

BB stats 24/19 over 282 hands. AFq 50%
SB stats 19/13 over 247 hands. AFq 41%


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 3.5 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t3815)
Hero (Button) (t3797)
SB (t2841)
BB (t3047)

Hero's M: 16.88

Preflop: Hero is Button with J

, K

1 fold, Hero?

 

[WiZZiM]

Raise/fold by far. An alternative vs heavy 3bettors/callers is to limp the button.

 

[jbbb]

What would be a general raise/stackoff range here?

99+, KQs+, AKo?

 

[naruto_miu]

I don't know about the rest but STT (SNG)? If this is the case here, I'm actually Raising 350 depending on the types of players blinds are...I mean if they love 3 betting pre then I'm not even raising I'm shoving...If there Passive and just flat/fold I'm raising 350...That's my plan (I could be wrong again)...I know I've asked this question but what is STT?

 

[jbbb]

Single Table Tournament. Basically a 9man SNG

 

[WiZZiM]

Shoving is terrible Naruto, for so many reasons. The main one being that we risk being called for little reward.

STT = single table tournament.

raise/calling range? it kinda depends on what types of villians were dealing with. But i'd say that range might be a little bit loose considering the buyin, stack positions, and how much play is left. Like, if we have an edge here, why would we want to flip with stuff like 99 at this stage in the tournament?

 

[RamdeeBen]

People will hate this when I say this, but I raise standard 3x and call shove from BB and fold to SB if shoved on.

 

[dj11]

Under most circumstances by the time your STT is down to 4 handed, you have an idea of how the others are playing.

We need some feel for the table. AFq in a STT doesn't do much, VPIP would be skewed to a 9 seat table. Your impressions of them at this point would be what we need. With ~~ 250 hands on the blinds, you seem to have played these guys over several sessions, or this is one long STT (usually under 100 hands).

Otherwise if this were a poll, I'm with Wizzim.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Shoving is terrible Naruto, for so many reasons. The main one being that we risk being called for little reward.

STT = single table tournament.

raise/calling range? it kinda depends on what types of villians were dealing with. But i'd say that range might be a little bit loose considering the buyin, stack positions, and how much play is left. Like, if we have an edge here, why would we want to flip with stuff like 99 at this stage in the tournament?

I know in general shoving is terrible here but the "reward" here is that someone having to call here would have to be calling only A,Q+ 10'10s+. Even at micro levels, people are often aware of places paid and if top 3 are being paid, they are usually very reluctant to stack off unless holding a monster.

I'm not for shoving by the way here, more open/calling from that loose BB but I don't hate shoving tbh especially if blinds are due to go up, this only leaves us 15 blinds with the other stacks ~10 blinds and the speed these tournaments go within one orbit we can be one of the shorter stacks in some cases.

 

[WiZZiM]

Yah ram, taking these chips doesn't really significantly change our equity position. So we really want to make it as cheap as we can. And risking our whole stack for under 10% of our stack really isn't a good reward at all.

You may also be forgetting that raising to like 330 may be actually more profitable when someone actually calls and folds to our c-bet.

 

[naruto_miu]

You may also be forgetting that raising to like 330 may be actually more profitable when someone actually calls and folds to our c-bet.

Yet this actually changes once again if the Blinds call and say we miss the flop like 855 Which isn't bad TBH but if we Cbet and they C/R, then we just tossed valuable chips away for no reason at all right? I understand with 3 places being paid that you really don't want to risk your stack with such a weak hand, yet at the same time 2.5xRaising then folding to a 3 bet A.I= To me not a great idea (But works), 2.5xRaising and then calling not a great Idea cuz we are behind (Usually to a Rag ace)...Raising A.I (Bad idea because you are risking your tourney with this hand and if called are doomed, but at the same time if not called you pick up the blinds+antes)...Now 2.5x Raising if we missed the flop and they donk bet into us (Where do we stand)...All these questions could be answered if we knew what types of players that blinds are, yet your correct in that (There's little reward to gain by stacking off with KJo and/or shoving A.I with KJo when 3 players are paid)...

 

[WiZZiM]

Yet this actually changes once again if the Blinds call and say we miss the flop like 855 Which isn't bad TBH but if we Cbet and they C/R, then we just tossed valuable chips away for no reason at all right?

No reason? our raise preflop works a pretty high % i'd say. So our flop c-bet is likely to work a pretty high % of the time as well, especially on dry flops like you mention. SO yeah, sometimes we do lose chips but instead of losing basically our entire tournament, we lose a certain % of our stack. but you can't ingore the times when we win chips also right? How many times do you raise pre, get called and fire a c-bet and laugh as they fold?

I understand with 3 places being paid that you really don't want to risk your stack with such a weak hand, yet at the same time 2.5xRaising then folding to a 3 bet A.I= To me not a great idea (But works), 2.5xRaising and then calling not a great Idea cuz we are behind (Usually to a Rag ace)...Raising A.I (Bad idea because you are risking your tourney with this hand and if called are doomed, but at the same time if not called you pick up the blinds+antes)...Now 2.5x Raising if we missed the flop and they donk bet into us (Where do we stand)...All these questions could be answered if we knew what types of players that blinds are, yet your correct in that (There's little reward to gain by stacking off with KJo and/or shoving A.I with KJo when 3 players are paid)...

It may not seem perfect to let someone possibly exploit us by raise/folding, however what other options do we have?

If you think they will take advantage and 3bet way too wide, then why not try limping? It may again not seem ideal, but i find that these types of 3betting aggro pre-flop players tend to be quite passive vs limpers. So we get to play pots in position, we take away the "bait" of raising preflop. and we can still take down pots postflop for a much cheaper price.

The drawbacks of this are we're going to find ourselves in a lot of weird situations postflop, and possibly let the SB in cheap leading to multiway pots. But i also found that letting bad players in these pots actually may get them to do something stupid postflop.

I'm not suggesting limping as a standard line here, but again, we're playing the players who are in the blinds. As you mention, if JBB can provide a few reads on suspected tendancies it would be a lot easier.

 

[jbbb]

Thanks for the replies, got some good discussion going which I hoped it would.
As for the hand I raised 2.2x (standard open) and they both folded. Being called would have been ok too because i'm pretty confident in my post flop game now, especially in position i'd have a big edge (probably more of a reason to 2.2x).


(Also Wiz, you might not remember but like half a year ago you made me a review for one of my SNGs. I've come so far from that it's unreal My basic gameplan is to 2.2x most hands when blinds reach 50/100 because (as you rightly said) people in micro SNG's play wayy too tight and weak. So thanks )

 

[WiZZiM]

Thanks for the replies, got some good discussion going which I hoped it would.
As for the hand I raised 2.2x (standard open) and they both folded. Being called would have been ok too because i'm pretty confident in my post flop game now, especially in position i'd have a big edge (probably more of a reason to 2.2x).


(Also Wiz, you might not remember but like half a year ago you made me a review for one of my SNGs. I've come so far from that it's unreal My basic gameplan is to 2.2x most hands when blinds reach 50/100 because (as you rightly said) people in micro SNG's play wayy too tight and weak. So thanks )

Oh cool, i don't actually remember it, i did quite a few of them actually, but i'm glad it helped . Hopefully i'll be able to get some tips from you when you go pro in the next few months ;D.

 

[baudib1]

Raise 2.2x and bet the flop.

 

[OzExorcist]

*walks in late*

I'm a bit out of practice but I go with the 330ish and fold to a shove option. We have both villains covered so they should be risk-averse when it comes to shoving back over us. If we open shove and get called we're almost always in terrible shape, and if we get villains to fold with our shove we only win the minimum anyway. Plus if we make a smallish open raise and get called we have position so we can potentially take a slightly bigger pot with a c-bet on the flop.

*reads rest of thread*

...so yeah, also what WiZ said because he's smarter than me

 

[10058765]

Yah ram, taking these chips doesn't really significantly change our equity position. So we really want to make it as cheap as we can. And risking our whole stack for under 10% of our stack really isn't a good reward at all.

You may also be forgetting that raising to like 330 may be actually more profitable when someone actually calls and folds to our c-bet.

Wow, thanks man.
You just opened my eyes and fixed one of my leaks (shoving AI to often with 4 players left).

 

[LombardiStix]

Again this was mentioned off hand, but knowing our opponents makes a heavy difference on what we choose to do. However, shoving seems necessary here. Never spend more than what you needed to get your desired result.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Yet this actually changes once again if the Blinds call and say we miss the flop like 855 Which isn't bad TBH but if we Cbet and they C/R, then we just tossed valuable chips away for no reason at all right? I understand with 3 places being paid that you really don't want to risk your stack with such a weak hand, yet at the same time 2.5xRaising then folding to a 3 bet A.I= To me not a great idea< why? so we lose 330.. big deal? Open-shoving here at this level with these stacks is just plain f'n TERRIBLE (But works), 2.5xRaising and then calling not a great Idea cuz we are behind (Usually to a Rag ace)..< you'd assume that if villain RRAI that a rag Ace is included in their range? I'd highly doubt it! (in this scenario).Raising A.I (Bad idea because you are risking your tourney with this hand and if called are doomed, but at the same time if not called you pick up the blinds+antes)...what antes? it's 75/150 (there are no antes at 75/150). Risk entire stack for a shytty 225 chips, not even a 10% gain to our stack is a really bad reason Now 2.5x Raising if we missed the flop and they donk bet into us (Where do we stand) < who knows? & whatever... we likely fold but so what? ...All these questions could be answered if we knew what types of players that blinds are, yet your correct in that (There's little reward to gain by stacking off with KJo and/or shoving A.I with KJo when 3 players are paid)...

Question: have you read any SNG's Strategy books? Just askin' cuz a) some of the suggestions you make in HH posts kind of amaze me & b) well... pretty much more of point 'a', lol.
'IF' you haven't, I'd highly recommend picking one (or a couple) of them up.

OP, what range would I call a shove here with pre (if same scenario & blinds ship it).. well 'it depends' (on villain) but for sure KQ would not be a call ever.
Thing with a spot like this (where we're raising w intentions of r/f pre if they 3bai) we can basically be doing same thing with 97, T8, etc. (or maybe atc) but also is obv. villain-dependant. (ie. they call pre often but give up on flop a good % of the time). Also, raising with something that will play easily (or might even flop nicely... ie. 97s, T8s) would obv. be better than atc's.
r/f to a shove.
Raise & cbet most flops (if called).

 

[Poker Orifice]

Question: have you read any SNG's Strategy books? Just askin' cuz a) some of the suggestions you make in HH posts kind of amaze me & b) well... pretty much more of point 'a', lol.
'IF' you haven't, I'd highly recommend picking one (or a couple) of them up.

OP, what range would I call a shove here with pre (if same scenario & blinds ship it).. well 'it depends' (on villain) but for sure KQ would not be a call ever.
Thing with a spot like this (where we're raising w intentions of r/f pre if they 3bai) we can basically be doing same thing with 97, T8, etc. (or maybe atc) but also is obv. villain-dependant. (ie. they call pre often but give up on flop a good % of the time). Also, raising with something that will play easily (or might even flop nicely... ie. 97s, T8s) would obv. be better than atc's.
r/f to a shove.
Raise & cbet most flops (if called).

Not meaning to be a dickhead here. Sorry if it came off sounding that way.