$3 NLHE STT Turbo: How did I mess up here?

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SolaRoe

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The only mistakes I see myself making are having too wide a raising range and raising OOP if you consider BB to be OOP (which, preflop, I really don't). The wide range is a systemic issue because I enjoy the LAGtard style and just want to eliminate the "tard" part eventually. :)

I can't figure out where the spoiler tag is, so I apologize for posting results.

PartyGaming - $3+$0|50/100 NL - Holdem - 10 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 2,410.00
UTG: 2,000.00
UTG+1: 3,080.00
UTG+2: 2,000.00
MP: 1,840.00
MP+1: 1,560.00
MP+2: 1,930.00
CO: 1,910.00
BTN: 1,330.00
SB: 1,940.00

SB posts SB 50.00, Hero posts BB 100.00

Pre Flop: (pot: 150.00) Hero has J<font color='black'>♠</font> T<font color='black'>♠</font>

fold, fold, fold, MP calls 100.00, MP+1 calls 100.00, fold, fold, BTN calls 100.00, SB calls 50.00, Hero raises to 400.00, MP calls 300.00, MP+1 calls 300.00, fold, fold

Flop: (1400.00, 3 players) 4<font color='red'>♦</font> J<font color='red'>♥</font> 9<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero bets 700.00, MP calls 700.00, fold

Turn: (2800.00, 2 players) J<font color='red'>♦</font>
Hero bets 1,310.00 and is all-in, MP calls 740.00 and is all-in

River: (4280.00, 2 players) 8<font color='black'>♠</font>

Hero shows J<font color='black'>♠</font> T<font color='black'>♠</font> (Three of a Kind, Jacks) (Pre 73%, Flop 85%, Turn 86%)
MP shows 8<font color='red'>♦</font> J<font color='black'>♣</font> (Full House, Jacks full of Eights) (Pre 27%, Flop 15%, Turn 14%)
Hero wins 0.00
MP wins 4,280.00
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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I'll answer with a question: when you make that raise preflop, what's your plan? What are you hoping will happen?
 
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Sori

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I'm assuming you are raising that preflop to try and take the pot right there, seeing as everyone has limped. I don't mind this raise to try and steal the pot preflop with JTs (although may I should), and the flop is a pretty good one for you. I don't really hate the way you played the hand honestly. You got all the chips in ahead and got unlucky on the river. Although the villian is pretty terrible calling both the flop bet and turn shove with an underpair.
 
Rldetheflop

Rldetheflop

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I'm assuming you are raising that preflop to try and take the pot right there, seeing as everyone has limped. I don't mind this raise to try and steal the pot preflop with JTs (although may I should), and the flop is a pretty good one for you. I don't really hate the way you played the hand honestly. You got all the chips in ahead and got unlucky on the river. Although the villian is pretty terrible calling both the flop bet and turn shove with an underpair.

I think there are way to many people in the pot already to be trying to isolate or take the pot pre especially in a 3 dollar game just not likely to happen. I think we should be more than happy to check our option here we have a decent hand that can really connect well with flops so we are looking to hit hard and don't mind a multi-way pot.
 
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Sori

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I think there are way to many people in the pot already to be trying to isolate or take the pot pre especially in a 3 dollar game just not likely to happen. I think we should be more than happy to check our option here we have a decent hand that can really connect well with flops so we are looking to hit hard and don't mind a multi-way pot.

Yea, looking back at it I agree. It is a very solid hand to have in a pot with multiple limpers. Seeing as the action can end with you, I take back what I say- get a free flop with a hand that could potentially flop a monster.
 
Arjonius

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You messed up when you tried to raise four limpers by making it 4x. That gave the first person to call 8:3 pot odds, and after him, each subsequent caller gets even higher odds. So it's not out of the question that you could have gotten even more callers than you did.

Basically, the probability of everyone folding was low, and you were very likely to be OOP. Your hand is one that can flop decently against multiple opponents. And it's not impossible that someone will re-pop it. So it's an easy decision to choose the straightforward action; check and see the flop cheaply.

Also, it's easy to say the villain made a bad call pre-. However, if we set your range such that JTs is the bottom, his call probably isn't awful mathematically. Given the 8:3 pot odds, he can call with a pretty wide range.
 
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WiZZiM

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OP as others have mentioned, this is an easy check. Your options preflop since the effective stacks are only 18 BB's is to shove or fold. Shoving doesn't really gain us a lot of equity since we are already near the chip lead. getting more chips at this stage would be nice, but it really doesn't help us to survive. Now if we're much shorter around the 15BB range then i'd be happy to shove, also if we KNOW the two limpers will fold a ton then i'd be ok with shoving.

Since i doubt we know these things, it's an easy check, see a flop and see what happens. The one thing you need to understand here is that we're playing against $3 players who have limped in the pot. Limpers obviously want to see a flop, so an extra 300 to me seems like a lot, but to them they will talk themselves into calling just becuase they want to see that all important flop. SO as mentined above, your just setting yourself up for a big pot a lot of the time, with a hand that plays best multiway in cheap pots.


Arjonius- You have to factor in stack size, spr, and implied odds pre. SO his call is horrible mathematically. but the rest of it is spot on
 
OzExorcist

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Sorry,Yoda, but I ain't Luke. And I don't do windows.

If you can't answer a simple question like that, then the 'tard part is here to stay. Just saying is all :rolleyes:
 
Poker Orifice

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I think there are way to many people in the pot already to be trying to isolate or take the pot pre especially in a 3 dollar game just not likely to happen. I think we should be more than happy to check our option here we have a decent hand that can really connect well with flops so we are looking to hit hard and don't mind a multi-way pot.
this ^
& to add, > Big time TARD!

I'm guessing you're a systemically losing player.
 
Arjonius

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Arjonius- You have to factor in stack size, spr, and implied odds pre. SO his call is horrible mathematically. but the rest of it is spot on
I think it depends how you define awful / horrible. For the hero's range to include JTs, it has to be around 17% of all hands. Against such a range, J8o is slightly worse than a 2:1 dog, but is getting 8:3 pot odds.

The additional 300 still leaves him with over 14BB, so he can afford to call then fold if he misses the flop without crippling himself. Plus he does have position on the hero.

Otoh, the 2;1 above is based on seeing all five cards, which may well not happen.

If I had to say the call was good or bad, I'd choose bad. But since I can choose from a spectrum of badness, I choose just plain bad rather than awful. But it's subjective, so it's fine that you disagree.
 
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