$3 NLHE: QQ OOP

[TheNoob]

$3 NL HE: QQ OOP

I was uncomfortable here.

I have three limpers, two are tricky and are capable of limping with AK or AQ.

I can raise here, but save a shove, I know I'm getting called by the above player(s). Seat 5 can be maniacal.

I think my only options are a) Raise big 4or5xbb (seat 5 will call) b) shove c) check to see a flop.



pokerstars Game #31564072689: Tournament #186788425, $3.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2009/08/12 21:10:16 ET
Table '186788425 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: kkosta (945 in chips)
Seat 2: WJenkinsPlay (2670 in chips)
Seat 3: DEWally (4220 in chips)
Seat 4: DETSGD (1050 in chips)
Seat 5: BlaqPearl (1560 in chips)
Seat 6: Lady_Brie_24 (1885 in chips)
Seat 7: miramar kws (2025 in chips)
Seat 8: Cuervito.17 (4200 in chips)
Seat 9: Joachim23 (3050 in chips)
Cuervito.17: posts small blind 50
Joachim23: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Joachim23 [Qd Qs]
kkosta: folds
WJenkinsPlay: calls 100
DEWally: folds
DETSGD: folds
BlaqPearl: calls 100
Lady_Brie_24: folds
miramar kws: calls 100
Cuervito.17: folds
Joachim23: ??

 

[JustRaiseTheBlinds]

I think you have to bet here 3 times BB plus 3 limpers is a total of 6 BB makes it 600. I think this is a good amount to bet here...

 

[Jillychemung]

You don't want to play a multiway pot here and it's be so weak to call and fold to an overcard on the flop but on the other hand I'd hate to bet into a slow played AA/KK. Plus you are going to be out of position the rest of the hand here. You are really going to have to make a decision about the probability that one of these 3 is slow playing AA/KK.

With opponents stack sizes and your reads I'd raise to 800 here to make it less appealing for multiple callers and then react to what the opponents do and the flop texture.

 

[TheNoob]

Yeah, I kind of screwed the pooch on this one. It ended up ok, but I don't think I made the right play.

Thinking back, I'm afraid I was weak here because I was almost out of this one and just recently had a few hands to get this ok stack. I'm in a "don't let go of those chips" mode, and just playing too timid. Feeling unsure about the limpers, I feel I'll get called with a 4,5 or 6bb raise with AK, AQ or even KQs or a KJ. Not impossible with the kind of play I have witnessed.

Then if a A or K comes on the flop, I just don't want to bet into it and would be forced to check/fold, because they will bet. So:


Joachim23: checks
*** FLOP *** [8h 2c 6s]
Joachim23: checks
WJenkinsPlay: bets 500
BlaqPearl: folds
miramar kws: folds
Joachim23: raises 500 to 1000
WJenkinsPlay: folds
Uncalled bet (500) returned to Joachim23
Joachim23 collected 1450 from pot
Joachim23: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1450 | Rake 0
Board [8h 2c 6s]
Seat 1: kkosta folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: WJenkinsPlay folded on the Flop
Seat 3: DEWally folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: DETSGD folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BlaqPearl folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Lady_Brie_24 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: miramar kws (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Cuervito.17 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Joachim23 (big blind) collected (1450)


Flop is good for me. Maybe I should bet here, but at the very least I know seat 3 will bet and probably a good sized bet from his prior behavior, so I check raise to take it.

Not happy with this play.

 

[JohnnyFronts]

Agreed with Jilly here, I hate betting into an overpair, however you cannot be afraid of that just because they could have limped with them (which is unlikely in the first place). Pretty standard otherwise, just raise it to 675-800 and try to get it all in on a dry Jack high or Queen high flop. Checking is terribad and shoving pre is barf. Your villains may have limped with AK/AQ, but their range is most likely wider than that and still you are ahead of that range, so charge them to play their inferior hand.

 

[TheNoob]

Agreed with Jilly here, I hate betting into an overpair, however you cannot be afraid of that just because they could have limped with them (which is unlikely in the first place). Pretty standard otherwise, just raise it to 675-800 and try to get it all in on a dry Jack high or Queen high flop. Checking is terribad and shoving pre is barf. Your villains may have limped with AK/AQ, but their range is most likely wider than that and still you are ahead of that range, so charge them to play their inferior hand.

I agree with you and Jilly.

I played it bad, playing too weak trying to hang onto recently won chips.

Leak city.

 

[JohnnyFronts]

Posted my reply just as you were posting the hand history. I dont like a checkraise here at all. Im probably leading this flop for sure. Checkraising is giving the weak 1 pair hands like 8's, 77, or 6's a chance to fold, which we dont want. As played lead out and let them raise you.

 

[TheNoob]

Posted my reply just as you were posting the hand history. I dont like a checkraise here at all. Im probably leading this flop for sure. Checkraising is giving the weak 1 pair hands like 8's, 77, or 6's a chance to fold, which we dont want. As played lead out and let them raise you.

Was unsure about this as well.

The check is also dumb, giving him a chance to see another card that may be an A or K, and then I would have well and truly smoked myself.

 

[pedroman7]

If your scared to raise with QQ because someone MIGHT have AA or KK, maybe you are just too risk adverse for poker. Just a thought.

 

[Jillychemung]

If your scared to raise with QQ because someone MIGHT have AA or KK, maybe you are just too risk adverse for poker. Just a thought.

Ah but Pedro, his reads on the limpers were that they could be tricky and that they could slow play AA/KK in this manner and has good reason to be wary here.

 

[JohnnyFronts]

Ah but Pedro, his reads on the limpers were that they could be tricky and that they could slow play AA/KK in this manner and has good reason to be wary here.

Not trying to sound negative by saying this, but if he thinks this is the case, what is his plan for the hand? Flop a set or fold? Very weaksauce...

 

[TheNoob]

If your scared to raise with QQ because someone MIGHT have AA or KK, maybe you are just too risk adverse for poker. Just a thought.

Don't think this hasn't occured to me.

And honestly, AA or KK is not really what troubles me here, as I'm guessing the limps are far more likley to be AK or AQ (or the other hands I mention above). If they're limping with it, I can't ask for much more of an opportunity if I'm holding Q's.

I'm (let's call it uncomfortable) to raise with the Q's because they're too easily crushed if a A or K hit's on the flop, and as I mentioned I believe even a big raise is going to get called. Some players might fold AQ to my raise, but many more won't and I think AK will call. These guys will call, and I'd bet seat 5 will call with Ace rag. And yes, this is what I want .... the villain with 3 outs to call a big raise.

Still, all my reasoning here is just too weak and I'm playing with too much fear of losing chips instead of making the correct decisions to win them.

The pf raise was the best play.

 

[TheNoob]

Not trying to sound negative by saying this, but if he thinks this is the case, what is his plan for the hand? Flop a set or fold? Very weaksauce...

No, I didn't think I needed a set on the flop, I felt I didn't want to see an A or K on the flop.

But yes, it was weak and I'm not defending it.

I'll work on making a better decision next time.

 

[pedroman7]

Ah but Pedro, his reads on the limpers were that they could be tricky and that they could slow play AA/KK in this manner and has good reason to be wary here.

I understand that he might believe they are limping with A's or K's but I think this makes an even better case for raising to define your hand. If you raise and one of the limpers shove, you can pretty comfortably fold and lose the min. If they call it will be a sticky spot oop but it will narrow they range a lot if they are tight players.

 

[bubbasbestbabe]

Over thinking will lose you lots of pots. Players at this level tend to value any A rag. 5-6BB PF standard here. Cbet flop.

 

[ukaliks]

u won minimum vaule for a strong PP...

3 limpers who can slow play AK or AQ? Then charge them to see a flop! Plus u want to get maximum vaule if the board comes AQx or such a dry low one.

Seat 5 is crazy guy who will call? Then charge him for his mistake's!!! Yes they mite have limped in with AA or KK but thats poker and it'll suck. But u'll know u mite b behind if u raised pre-flop and u were re-raised, u know that ur facing either AA/KK/AK/AQ.

IMO i would of raised 550/650 (not too much cos u want to make some money of ur PP) pre-flop and on a flop of: 8h 2c 6s im deffo c/bettin to take this pot down. No slow playin incase a A or K comes on the turn.

 

[alexcarlos]

Best way to play with pockets is to see the flop, and with a flop like that of course u could take people out of this hand and win the pot.

 

[JohnnyFronts]

Over thinking will lose you lots of pots. Players at this level tend to value any A rag. 5-6BB PF standard here. Cbet flop.

+1