$3 NLHE: First hand 27 man

[TheNoob]

$3 NL HE: First hand 27 man

Obviously no reads as it's the first hand.

I don't think he's hanging around to catch the J playing a Q 10.

My kicker is good, but sad if he's playing K9 and tragic if he is playing A9.

He probably doesn't check from the BB with AA or JJ (and maybe he raises from the BB with 8's, which obviously become an issue on the turn).

You fold here?

Also, pf bet too weak?

pokerstars Game #31599772805: Tournament #187035444, $3.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2009/08/13 19:31:16 ET
Table '187035444 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: BAJAKID46 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: sixthsens (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: homiejon69 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: sp_toni (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: RiverWhiskey (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: erol-sivas (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: LuckøLuciano (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: SnackWhack (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: Joachim23 (1500 in chips)
sixthsens: posts small blind 10
homiejon69: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Joachim23 [9c Qs]
sp_toni: calls 20
RiverWhiskey: folds
erol-sivas: calls 20
LuckøLuciano: folds
SnackWhack: folds
Joachim23: calls 20
BAJAKID46 has timed out
BAJAKID46: folds
BAJAKID46 is sitting out
sixthsens: calls 10
homiejon69: checks
*** FLOP *** [9s 9d Ac]
sixthsens: checks
homiejon69: checks
sp_toni: checks
BAJAKID46 has returned
erol-sivas: checks
Joachim23: bets 60
sixthsens: folds
homiejon69: calls 60
sp_toni: folds
erol-sivas: folds
*** TURN *** [9s 9d Ac] [8c]
homiejon69: bets 100
Joachim23: raises 100 to 200
homiejon69: calls 100
*** RIVER *** [9s 9d Ac 8c] [Js]
homiejon69: checks
Joachim23: bets 260
homiejon69: raises 960 to 1220 and is all-in
Joachim23: ??

 

[JohnnyFronts]

Don't limp preflop and you will most likely avoid situations like this. With no reads I think this becomes a VERY reluctant fold in most situations. However low limit tournaments like this can have very spazzy players, and his responses to your bets show weakness imo. He flat called your flop bet, bet-called your turn bet, and checkraised your river gheybet. All weak imo. Either this is a monster or a weak ace. Im gonna elect to call, and if Im wrong, oh well - fire up another game.

 

[TheNoob]

Don't limp preflop and you will most likely avoid situations like this. With no reads I think this becomes a VERY reluctant fold in most situations. However low limit tournaments like this can have very spazzy players, and his responses to your bets show weakness imo. He flat called your flop bet, bet-called your turn bet, and checkraised your river gheybet. All weak imo. Either this is a monster or a weak ace. Im gonna elect to call, and if Im wrong, oh well - fire up another game.

I wasn't too fond of the hand, but getting 3.5:1 in the CO I decided to limp.

Yeah, going over it again I guess the river bet was weak.

The flop bet of a little over 1/2 pot was bad? Pot sized bet with the trips?


ETA: And yes, I felt his behavior seemed like he was weak as well.

 

[JohnnyFronts]

No, I didn't say the flop bet was bad. The pot had multiple players, one of them possibly having a weak ace, so betting to get action started is good. There arent any draws so a 1/2 pot bet was good enough to get the response you need.

 

[TheNoob]

No, I didn't say the flop bet was bad. The pot had multiple players, one of them possibly having a weak ace, so betting to get action started is good. There arent any draws so a 1/2 pot bet was good enough to get the response you need.

Ok, misunderstood. When you said "all weak imo" you meant his actions not mine. I thought you were calling all my bets weak.


Anyway, I called and he turned over the A9, so not too bad of a flop for him.

 

[toopie]

Yeah I think I would call imo. Yeah I wouldn't limp with that hand though.

 

[Tublecain]

If it's good enough to limp, it's good enough to raise. Otherwise, you might as well fold.

I'm sure that most of us already know this, but for those of us who occasionally forget (like me) and for all the newcomers who might not yet know, I'd like to post about a general principle of poker that has vastly improved my game. If, unlike me, you've already mastered this aspect of the game, then go ahead and skip this post. Otherwise, read on!

Essentially I have learned that at the small to mid stakes, in principle you almost never want to limp into a pot with a few exceptions:

1) Small pocket pairs in late position after a lot of limpers, hoping to hit a set (no set, no bet)
2) Suited connectors in late position after a lot of limpers, hoping to hit a monster like a straight or a flush

All other hands, you want to either raise if they're strong, for value, to isolate or to extract information, or just fold them (with the exception of blind stealing on the bubble and late stages of the tourney... but you should still be raising then, not calling). This is especially true for potentially dominated hands like Q9. Basically unless you hit top two pair, a straight or a boat, your hand is weak at best, utterly crushed at worst; and even if you hit trips as you did in this case, you really aren't sure where you stand (could any of my 5 opponents have a better kicker, a boat, or even a straight by the river?)

The basic idea is that limping with a hand like this makes it easier to make mistakes; and winning at poker is largely about making fewer mistakes than your opponents over the long run. Limping Q9o (even in late position) is the perfect way to put yourself into a situation where you'll be making a lot of mistakes.

Yes, it's fun to try and trap someone with pocket Aces; but if you do that you have to do it knowing that if the flop comes three cards to a flush, three cards to a straight, or paired, you might just have to give up your Aces (blasphemy!) because you have no idea what your opponent has and how they might have connected with the flop. I know that we've all seen Daniel Negreanu and Phil Ivey and Gus Hansen limp with both monsters and dominated hands from out of position, in position and everywhere in between, but remember that these are all professional players, thinking on a whole other level, and perhaps more importantly: sitting with other players who are also capable of thinking on that level.

If you want to see a real world example of why this is important, please watch the following: Phil Ivey vs. Brad Booth

This play would never work anywhere but at that table, because I don't think any micro/low/mid stakes player (myself included!) would be capable of folding KK in that spot. They simply wouldn't understand what Brad Booth is doing, or why. They'd just insta-call. But here Brad Booth is pegging Ivey on a big hand, sees a flop that makes his hand vulnerable, knows that Ivey is seeing the same thing and is capable of folding KK or even AA here, and decides to pounce. Everything at that table (the huge stakes, relative stack sizes, Ivey's playing style, Booth's own playing style, the fact it's his first hand on the table) is taken into consideration before he makes the move.

Our moves should be just as thoughtful, and just as specifically tailored to the reality at our table, what we know we can do (i.e. if we limp with these aces, and we see two kings on the flop, are we willing to fold our aces when our villain shoves, or suspiciously check/smooth-calls the flop and then check-raises the turn?), and again more importantly, what our opponents can do.

My apologies for the long winded response, but realizing this aspect of poker was so important to my game, that I can't help but try and share it with everyone. Best of luck to everyone out there,

T.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I would call 100% on the river... could easily be on AJ & think he's golden.

As mentioned above... I wouldn't limp in w Q9o from MP in eL. But to say it more strongly.. "WTF are you limping in with Q9o for in MP in early levels of a SNG ????? (<< this is terrible!!!!).

 

[Im_depressed]

I would call 100% on the river... could easily be on AJ & think he's golden.

As mentioned above... I wouldn't limp in w Q9o from MP in eL. But to say it more strongly.. "WTF are you limping in with Q9o for in MP in early levels of a SNG ????? (<< this is terrible!!!!).

Exactly this.

 

[dresturn2]

I would call there simply cause u went that far.....its a bad spot to be in but if u dont know the player its hard for me to fold

 

[undone]

I would fold here.. even if it wasnt the right play... you are looking at losing a bit of your chip stack but u can come back very easily... also dont limp with this hand.. nothing but trouble can come with it.. he could very easily have JJ .. or have K9 or A9 and just be calling until the river.. maybe my decision would be wrong... but i just wouldnt risk it on this.. also a steraight for him is a possibility.. VERY unlikely but who knows people are strange

 

[lektrikguy]

First hand of the tourney I would have folded this hand. I play tighter in the beginning of the tourneys with more than 9 players. But since you were in it I might have called. Can't really put him on any hand since he just called/checked so this might just be a bluff to win the pot.

 

[Michael69]

this situtiation would have obviously been avoided if you didn't limp preflop with q9o. you might as well play with a joker and an uno card.