$3.50 NLHE STT: Did I miss value, calling down AA after V takes lead on Flop

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Transitley

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Playing these stakes, I find people are quite aggressive in their betting and it puts my on the back foot. By doing this am I giving them cards too cheaply ie by not 4 betting the reraise on the flop - my rationale was it was a dry board and unless he's hit a set then I'm in good shape.


pokerstars, $3.16 + $0.34 - Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (3 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG (Hero): 1,491 (75 bb)
UTG+1: 1,491 (75 bb)
MP: 1,372 (69 bb)
MP+1: 1,548 (77 bb)
LP: 1,657 (83 bb)
CO: 1,518 (76 bb)
BU: 1,461 (73 bb)
SB: 1,471 (74 bb)
BB: 1,491 (75 bb)

Pre-Flop: (57) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to 60, 4 players fold, CO calls 60, 3 players fold

Flop: (177) 6 T 3 (2 players)
Hero bets 60, CO raises to 140, Hero calls 80

Turn: (457) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets 305, Hero calls 305

River: (1,067) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets 290, Hero calls 290


After that the second 6 worried me (although I have a tendency to worry about the few cards that can hurt me, rather than the majority that can't) - then his bet size just seemed too big, indicating he was trying to scare me off or resolve the pot then and there.

The river bet was the opposite, so small, seemed like a block bet, protecting his stack in case he had it, so I called rather than shoving.

I've left the result out of the code but not sure how to stop the replayer playing it or is that just up to individuals to pause it????
 
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Sidetracked

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You're pretty short stacked to start the hand. In these STTs, I'm not averse to just jamming that flop. You probably double up, and position yourself well to make money in the tournament.

Getting big pairs in these 1 table tourneys is a big deal, and you really need to play more aggressively with them.
 
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tzuriel

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You're pretty short stacked to start the hand. In these STTs, .


He has 75 BB and everyone else has about the same. The blinds are only 10/20 so this looks like the beginning of this SnG. No one is short-stacked here.
 
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tzuriel

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I would not be worried about the 6 because is he really raising you like 4 BB with middle pair on that flop? That would be a terrible decision but I guess it's possible at low stakes. His raise makes very little sense since there is no draw here that he needs to charge to see the next card and the only hands that will call beat a pair of sixes.

I think I am jamming on that turn bet since he seems pretty happy betting here and if he has a T he is calling you on that board. If he has TT and just called PF then you just go broke, I guess. Pretty unlikely though. You'd expect a raise PF with TT. I did watch the runout so my comments may be biased but I am jamming AA by the turn on this board. Your flat on the turn is okay but then you need to jam the river since he is still betting.
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
I like raising to 3BB in the first blind level of 75BB starting stack SnGs.

Flop
I would clearly bet for value, and while this is a rather small detail I would typically to a bit larger like 40% pot rather than just 30% pot. There is nothing wrong with 30%, but you having gone so small does matter for, what happen next, which is the raise. When you "downbet" this much, he is actually supposed to sometimes raise top pair for value and protection. You can have a lot of random overcards here, and he dont want to allow you to realise your equity so cheaply.

Even so I would also lean towards not 3-betting. The SPR was around 8, so its a little bit iffy to stack off a single pair, and if you start 3-betting, he might actually find a fold with some of his weaker top pair, that were raising for protection. So I prefer to just call and take a turn.

Turn
This was actually a very good card for you, since he is not really supposed to raise second pair on the flop or to even have a 6 in his hand after calling an UTG raise. It also cuts down on the combos of flopped sets, and if he somehow is in there with T3, now you beat that as well. Even so my logic is still the same as on the flop. If he has top pair, you got him, where you want, and now he only have two outs to suck out on you, because the board is paired. So to check-raise now and have him fold a hand like JTs would be a disaster.

River
I agree, that his sizing looks weak, and I dont think, he is taking this size with fat value like a boat or a weird rivered straight. So I feel very confident, you have the best hand, and I would expect him to have a lot of top pair in his range. For that reason, even though I said on the flop, that its a bit iffy to play for stacks with a single pair in a 8 SPR pot, I would be tempted to check-jam and put him to the test.

Results
Checked the replayer link, and I was pretty spot on it seems. Not JTs but T9s, which is almost the same. If he was a reg, I am not sure, you could have gotten more out of him. He put in half his stack already with top pair bad kicker, which is already a pretty great result for you. So overall I think, this hand was played perfectly fine, but I would consider that river jam next time. Even if he folds, it keeps him guessing, what you had, and it makes you more tough to play against.
 
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Badday94

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You played it perfectly. I usually am very aggressive with aces and would have jammed the river but more often than not, I lose to some idiotic hand so it's nice to see just calls from you and considering that he might have some 2 pair or a 6. Nicely done
 
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Sidetracked

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He has 75 BB and everyone else has about the same. The blinds are only 10/20 so this looks like the beginning of this SnG. No one is short-stacked here.


Everyone is pretty short stacked. That's my point. At the beginning of these STTs, no one is very deep, so having an overpair on the flop is a good candidate to get it all in with.
 
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tzuriel

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Everyone is pretty short stacked. That's my point. At the beginning of these STTs, no one is very deep, so having an overpair on the flop is a good candidate to get it all in with.

I can't understand how 75BBs is short-stacked, I guess.
 
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Transitley

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Preflop
I like raising to 3BB in the first blind level of 75BB starting stack SnGs.

Flop
I would clearly bet for value, and while this is a rather small detail I would typically to a bit larger like 40% pot rather than just 30% pot. There is nothing wrong with 30%, but you having gone so small does matter for, what happen next, which is the raise. When you "downbet" this much, he is actually supposed to sometimes raise top pair for value and protection. You can have a lot of random overcards here, and he dont want to allow you to realise your equity so cheaply.

Even so I would also lean towards not 3-betting. The SPR was around 8, so its a little bit iffy to stack off a single pair, and if you start 3-betting, he might actually find a fold with some of his weaker top pair, that were raising for protection. So I prefer to just call and take a turn.

Turn
This was actually a very good card for you, since he is not really supposed to raise second pair on the flop or to even have a 6 in his hand after calling an UTG raise. It also cuts down on the combos of flopped sets, and if he somehow is in there with T3, now you beat that as well. Even so my logic is still the same as on the flop. If he has top pair, you got him, where you want, and now he only have two outs to suck out on you, because the board is paired. So to check-raise now and have him fold a hand like JTs would be a disaster.

River
I agree, that his sizing looks weak, and I dont think, he is taking this size with fat value like a boat or a weird rivered straight. So I feel very confident, you have the best hand, and I would expect him to have a lot of top pair in his range. For that reason, even though I said on the flop, that its a bit iffy to play for stacks with a single pair in a 8 SPR pot, I would be tempted to check-jam and put him to the test.

Results
Checked the replayer link, and I was pretty spot on it seems. Not JTs but T9s, which is almost the same. If he was a reg, I am not sure, you could have gotten more out of him. He put in half his stack already with top pair bad kicker, which is already a pretty great result for you. So overall I think, this hand was played perfectly fine, but I would consider that river jam next time. Even if he folds, it keeps him guessing, what you had, and it makes you more tough to play against.


Thanks for the detail - some great learning for me here:

- I am playing too defensively (which is what I suspected, and hence why I posted this) the key one is that I saw the second 6 as a threat rather than a good card. However, Once I analysed the hand, I did twig I beat all 2 pairs. Because I didn't recognise that and due to my current mindset I was thinking 'hope he doesn't beat me' rather than 'better keep all his beaten hands in' ie it was luck not judgement that I didn't raise or check raise.

I need to do some studying on SPR and how to use it in my decision making - I am aware of it but never calculate it currently and hence, don't factor it in.

Lots more studying, analysis and practise to go - thanks for the support all!
 
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Transitley

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Everyone is pretty short stacked. That's my point. At the beginning of these STTs, no one is very deep, so having an overpair on the flop is a good candidate to get it all in with.


I get your point but you're next to never getting called in my experience - people aren't willing to stack off this early on.....although sometimes considered it as a bit of a double bluff as there was one yesterday first hand of same 'game' type : UTG +1 shove K8s, MP calls QQ and then Btn calls with A8s....but this is very unusual in my experience at these levels.
 
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Sidetracked

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I get your point but you're next to never getting called in my experience - people aren't willing to stack off this early on.....although sometimes considered it as a bit of a double bluff as there was one yesterday first hand of same 'game' type : UTG +1 shove K8s, MP calls QQ and then Btn calls with A8s....but this is very unusual in my experience at these levels.

People will definitely stack off with top pair at these early levels, and if you look at the hand replayer, you'll see that's exactly what he had. I have a feeling that his whole stack would have gone in if hero had raised him.
 
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Transitley

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People will definitely stack off with top pair at these early levels, and if you look at the hand replayer, you'll see that's exactly what he had. I have a feeling that his whole stack would have gone in if hero had raised him.


Yes, I think he would have definitely lost his stack on the river but not that many would stack off pre-flop with anything short of AK, QQ+ (although) could defo stretch that to AJs+ and 99+ but don't often see it as most don't shove so not much evidence to support this :)
 
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Transitley

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You're pretty short stacked to start the hand. In these STTs, I'm not averse to just jamming that flop. You probably double up, and position yourself well to make money in the tournament.

Getting big pairs in these 1 table tourneys is a big deal, and you really need to play more aggressively with them.


So, tonight I jammed AA UTG.......got called by QQ and had a clean run out; it works ;) - based on the end board the chips were going in either way, that said, may have avoided someone else coming along for the ride as many do at 20/10 with a 3x raise or often up to 5x. May use this sometimes!
 
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emzadii

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if I were the villain, with position advantage, I'd take the same line he did: raise the flop (for protection with top pair, and for value if hitting a set) on a dry board after a standard small cbet from the out-of-position UTG, and then continue betting big-ish on pretty much any turn card to target lower pairs and overcards.

the mistake that the villain made was betting very small on the river, and hero's overpair would miss the opportunity to exploit the mistake for value if not check-raising/jamming the river.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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Playing these stakes, I find people are quite aggressive in their betting and it puts my on the back foot. By doing this am I giving them cards too cheaply

I think you played this hand well. A common - and accurate statement is to play opposite of the table - if they are very tight - loosen up - if the table is LAG - play TAG instead.

Since you experience overly aggressive players in these events - playing a solid TAG style is a great opposing force to deal with these players.

Yes there is merit to avoiding players seeing extra cards for cheap - but when the board pairs on the turn in this situation - you are nearly always golden. He pretty much told you what his hand was on the flop - unless he was one of those fish who likes to bluff re-raise with ANY flopped pair and Ace kicker.

Well done.
 
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