$3.50 NLHE STT: Common pre spot that I'm not sure about

[BlueNowhere]

Really not sure how to play hands like these pre, I tend to just shove but really don't feel happy about it. My default for value is to raise to t75, my open shove range is pretty much a low PP at this stack depth. Any thoughts + reasoning on standard play with a low PP appreciated.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 3.5 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds 3 Ante (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t418)
SB (t520)
BB (t438)
UTG (t490)
Hero (MP) (t510)
CO (t624)

Hero's M: 8.10

Preflop: Hero is MP with 3

, 3

1 fold, Hero ???

 

[the lab man]

Maybe I'm missing something, How many chips do u start with??

 

[BlueNowhere]

500. It's a hyper turbo.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

I tend to limp 22-66 in these spots, but tbh mate, I don't know how good that is either. It's not purely a set mine, i mean if it limps round to the blinds, you can pick up dead money when they limp to you. Raising is a bit awkward because you're often tempted to call a shove, for me at least.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

its a hyper turbo, -20bb stacks, quick blinds, no limping.

I don't mind the ship, you'll be crushed sometimes but a lot of the time you're flipping.. just wondering if the shove makes enough out of the blinds to make it worth shipping?

you can probably get it in with more equity against ranges shipping big aces and broadway etc than small pairs imo.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

I know what it is. 25bb stacks, which means it's not just a shove fest, there are smaller edges to be found and the more streets we play, the more opportunity there is for us to outplay the fish on those streets.

 

[WiZZiM]

theres antes in play here as well guys meaning blinds are actually closer to 20/40.

We can't really raise this hand for value as this is probably one of the hardest hands to play even in position. We don't hit many flops, so we're usually just bluffing flops a lot when we miss and we're simply too short to do so. If you do raise this hand for value, you may as well raise 72s for value as well. so it's ship or fold for me in these spots all the time.. I'd probably default to shoving here a lot, especially since the blinds are probably going up soon.

 

[baudib1]

Shoving is probably marginally good from this spot, 3/2-Xiang is going to be massively bad.

 

[BlueNowhere]

If shoving here is marginal is a fold best when blinds are 10/20 and we're in the same position?

 

[Karkus77]

man i hate these situations, i think its one of those where i sometimes just fold, and sometimes i shove it, you obviously cant limp, you could raise i guess, i dunno, i hate this spot, just fold and pretend you never got dealt them lol

 

[BlueNowhere]

Yea lo PP just suck in this spot. These are just so easy to play HU but then with so many people to act behind I just don't know what's optimal.

 

[RamdeeBen]

It's one of those situations where I think any option is good here and all have the same or close to the same EV wise..

I don't mind folding/min raising/2.5xing and shoving are all fine imo. I guess it just depends on how I feel...I don't think it's wrong to do either.

Personally I think in most cases I'd just shove it in and obviously you can only be ever flipping at best so ufm even maybe folding might be better and have a slightly better +ev wise by having a "slightly" better spot to shove in later..

 

[baudib1]

It is definitely wrong to open small pocket pairs here, it's not close.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

yeah raising is deffo wrong with 4/6 people behind to act, so is limping.

fold > shove, but I dunno how hypers work.

 

[Karkus77]

i love baudib1's posts, there never opinions, always stated as fact lol

 

[baudib1]

it's stated as a fact because it is.

 

[RamdeeBen]

It is definitely wrong to open small pocket pairs here, it's not close.

I see open shoves/ open min raises/2.5x's etc from UTG, let along MP in the highest of levels in hypers. It might be a matter of opinion for others lol.

Im not so sure when it comes to hypers myself so I take your advice any day any ways here.; )

Personally though, I prefer folding though I must admit, but I also don't mind getting it in either in hypers.

yeah raising is deffo wrong with 4/6 people behind to act, so is limping.

fold > shove, but I dunno how hypers work.

I think I prefer folding in most cases myself however I think it;s same EV wise to get it in or fold anyways.

 

[RamdeeBen]

it's stated as a fact because it is.

What would you say if you saw the very best at the highest levels who open ship UTG/UTG+1/MP or even min raise from these postions with 5'5's< hands?

I'm just asking because I've seen them myself doing it, even though personally I don't think it's the best of play either.

 

[baudib1]

When I say "open" I'm talking about making a standard raise. Shoving is marginally ok from MP or later but it's close. Shoving 55 utg is going to be bad.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

There are simply some people out there who think every spot has a clear answer and it's a very simple game. Sadly that's not the case, but those people still exist.

 

[baudib1]

Most spots, especially in shortstack tournaments, are pretty much solved. Shortstacked with small pairs and lots of people to act are -EV. People who think they can play certain hands however they like depending on their mood or the day if the week don't understand the math involved. If you are playing 22 in this spot in any tournament you are simply bleeding chips.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

But your responses are the same whether it's a short stack tournament or not. The problem is that 1. not every situation is solved, sometimes it's good to flat a 4bet with Aces, one of the worst things you can do in poker is be predictable and 2. simply telling someone do this, do that and not giving reasoning doesn't help them understand why they're doing these things. That's why they come here, to know what they should do in spots and why that's a +EV move.

 

[baudib1]

It doesn't matter what the format is, raising 22-66 with 17 BBs from MP isn't going to be a profitable play.

 

[the lab man]

based on hyper turbo and mid position I fold here.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

But your responses are the same whether it's a short stack tournament or not. The problem is that 1. not every situation is solved, sometimes it's good to flat a 4bet with Aces, one of the worst things you can do in poker is be predictable and 2. simply telling someone do this, do that and not giving reasoning doesn't help them understand why they're doing these things. That's why they come here, to know what they should do in spots and why that's a +EV move.

+1, and the majority of us are at the micros, balancing isn't needed.