$3.50 NLHE STT: AA vs. flop raise

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LuisBoaC

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11th hand so can't read too much into V.'s HUD.
Using Equilab I've put V. on range of:
QQ-TT, AQs, ATs, KTs+, QTs+, T9s,
ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o,
AdJd, JdTd, Ad9d, Jd9d, Ad8d, Jd8d, Ad7d, Jd7d, Ad6d, Jd6d, Ad5d, Jd5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d

This puts us at about 50% equity each. I'd like to know what you think his range is when he raises the flop, and what action you would take?
I'm not sure why I c-bet so large on the flop, but essentially I was betting for value and protection.



pokerstars, $3.11 + $0.39 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (4 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 1,385 (46 bb)
UTG+1 (Hero): 2,099 (70 bb)
MP: 1,659 (55 bb)
MP+1: 1,461 (49 bb)
LP: 1,375 (46 bb)
CO: 1,604 (53 bb)
BU: 1,328 (44 bb)
SB: 1,633 (54 bb)
BB: 956 (32 bb)

Pre-Flop: (81) Hero is UTG+1 with A A
1 fold, Hero raises to 90, 1 fold, MP+1 calls 90, 1 fold, CO calls 90, 3 players fold

Flop: (351) K Q J (3 players)
Hero bets 315, MP+1 raises to 630, CO folds,

Thanks for any input.
 
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
I normally use 2,5BB as my open raise in the second blind level of these Stars SnGs.

Flop
Terrible flop for AA, and you are out of position against two players. Check and hope, they check behind, and that the turn is either an offsuit T giving you the nuts or a low blank. As played when he min-raise you, after you bet almost full pot into two players, this is extremely strong action, and I dont see, why he would ever do this with a draw. He is literally screaming from the mountain top, that he has a nutted hand, which on this board means a flopped straight. Against T9 you have 3 outs to win, and against AT you have 3 out to chop. You are not getting the right odd to draw, so as played I would find a bucket and fold.
 
Vallet

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The bet was very big on the flop. Perhaps a small blocking bet of 1/3 or 1/4 is a good solution to understand what you are facing on the flop. You need to go to the turn cheaper to get another ten, but not the suit of diamonds. There are very few outs left to continue the fight. The villain is raising now and is preparing to go all in on the turn. Therefore, an important decision must be made on the flop. There are a lot of hands in his range that beat you. Any two pairs, sets, straight. I think it doesn't matter for him which card comes next. He will move his last chips. And this means that you are behind him.
 
perrypip

perrypip

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Don't overplay your aces. You don't know a players range after 11 hands but against two players you are about 70% with aces. It was a mistake betting so much on the flop, bet about 1/3 of the pot. It was also a mistake shoving. You overvalued your aces. You can lose a big pot when you do that.
 
Zapahlohotrona

Zapahlohotrona

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A 3.5 tournament. I would probably have played the same. Although it is not a mistake to fold the flop against such a reraise.
 
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LuisBoaC

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Thank you all for your feedback. I definitely agree that I overvalued Aces here. I still think I can c-bet the flop (but smaller), looking for value from one pair hands and draws (giving them the wrong price).
Fundiver, I'd like to ask, are you not wary of giving a free card? I'm mainly worried about T-x hands (especially KT, QT, JT) and the obvious flush draw. And what would you do if facing a bet after you checked?
I have considered that this might be a reverse implied odds spot, but decided it wasn't as I'm sure there are hands in my opponents' ranges that I'm ahead of and can get value from, like one pair hands and strong draws.
I understand and agree that when my c-bet is raised I have not narrowed V.'s range enough and am now behind almost all of his range (except perhaps AK?) and should fold.
 
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fundiver199

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Fundiver, I'd like to ask, are you not wary of giving a free card? I'm mainly worried about T-x hands (especially KT, QT, JT) and the obvious flush draw.

If we say, that they will each continue with any broadway other than AK, 99-JJ and any reasonable flushdraw, then you only have 55% equity against a single opponent, that continue, so you are not getting much value. You also dont deny any significant equity, because the hands, they fold, are hands such as 66 or 87 of spades, and these hands are drawing practically dead. In top of that you are out of position on future streets, and betting open up the door for someone to raise you.

And what would you do if facing a bet after you checked?

That depends on the sizing and action. If it goes bet-raise, I would fold. If it goes bet-call, I would call up to 2/3 pot, but I would really hate the situation already. If it goes bet-fold or check-bet, I would pretty much always call, unless its an overbet.
 
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LuisBoaC

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Thank you fundiver. I only asked because I knew you'd have a good explanation that I could learn from, and you didn't disappoint!
 
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eetenor

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11th hand so can't read too much into V.'s HUD.
Using Equilab I've put V. on range of:
QQ-TT, AQs, ATs, KTs+, QTs+, T9s,
ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o,
AdJd, JdTd, Ad9d, Jd9d, Ad8d, Jd8d, Ad7d, Jd7d, Ad6d, Jd6d, Ad5d, Jd5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d

This puts us at about 50% equity each. I'd like to know what you think his range is when he raises the flop, and what action you would take?
I'm not sure why I c-bet so large on the flop, but essentially I was betting for value and protection.



PokerStars, $3.11 + $0.39 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (4 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 1,385 (46 bb)
UTG+1 (Hero): 2,099 (70 bb)
MP: 1,659 (55 bb)
MP+1: 1,461 (49 bb)
LP: 1,375 (46 bb)
CO: 1,604 (53 bb)
BU: 1,328 (44 bb)
SB: 1,633 (54 bb)
BB: 956 (32 bb)

Pre-Flop: (81) Hero is UTG+1 with A A
1 fold, Hero raises to 90, 1 fold, MP+1 calls 90, 1 fold, CO calls 90, 3 players fold

Flop: (351) K Q J (3 players)
Hero bets 315, MP+1 raises to 630, CO folds,

Thanks for any input.

Thank you for posting.


Ok we raise and get called and we are now OOP vs 2 players. Before the flop comes a good strategy is to be thinking about what flops are bad for us and what our best strategy on these types of flops might be.

This flop is really bad for us. We need to think about our V's range before we act.
AT straight JT straight KQ QJ JJ AJ TT all possible in our 2 V's ranges as well as lots of hands that miss 99-22 etc

A good exercise now is to think about all our decisions first to act and the possible outcomes of those actions. Then we are ready to apply this strat in game.

Lets start with your bet. 89% pot
This sizing folds out all the weaker hands and builds a big pot for all the better hands which our V have many combos of and there are only a few combos of weak draws that call that sizing.
Not the sizing to use most of the time on this flop.

Half pot size- we get the same result as above because of the flop texture. Again not a high frequency bet here.

25% pot size- We get the same weak equity hands to fold- some weaker draws call -we do not however risk many chips to see the turn if our V raises us. It is still a strong action betting into 2 players when we have all the sets here so bluffs will be less frequent but not impossible by our V. We would expect the bluffs to come from V2.

If we are betting this seems the bet to make most frequently.

Check flop

We keep the pot small.
We see the turn cheaper than our large bet even if it does not get raised. V will seldom big bet the nuts on this flop after we check.
We allow our 2 V to interact on this board and get info on how strong they are based on how they attack each other before we act.
We can redraw to the Nuts here with a T- 2 pair can be out drawn by us and we can check fold ugly turn cards if it is checked thru.

A check is a very viable strategy in this spot. It allows us to make reads on V hand strength based on their bet sizing

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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Badday94

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There are a lot of K Q, K J, Q J, 10 9 in their range so very bad flop for aces. In a 3 way pot this is a check in my opinion and if they bet, maybe just a peel and pray the 10 comes on the turn, otherwise find the fold and move on.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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11th hand so can't read too much into V.'s HUD.
Using Equilab I've put V. on range of:
QQ-TT, AQs, ATs, KTs+, QTs+, T9s,
ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o,
AdJd, JdTd, Ad9d, Jd9d, Ad8d, Jd8d, Ad7d, Jd7d, Ad6d, Jd6d, Ad5d, Jd5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d

This puts us at about 50% equity each. I'd like to know what you think his range is when he raises the flop, and what action you would take?
I'm not sure why I c-bet so large on the flop, but essentially I was betting for value and protection.

I think your range is slightly wide but not extremely.
Your overly large bet on the flop induced your opponent to do the only thing he could with the hand he had. I doubt all except the aggro donks are doing that with a flush draw. Essentially your banking on your one pair being best - and he is banking on his two pair holding up.
Tough decision on the flop - I think I'd either check - or bet small - but the cbet is definitely way too big for your hand and that board. The outcome could have been reduced with a smaller cbet - pretty sure you'd both hate that turn card. He would hate it less than you - but might have saved a lot of chips by using a smaller cbet on the flop.
 
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