$3.50 NLHE STT: 2 overcards vs BB flop check/raise

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LuisBoaC

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 36/26/7

12th hand of the tourney. BB's HUD stats are from 52 hands. His 36% VPIP coupled with the fact he's in the BB makes me think he's on wide range.
I feel my flop c-bet was pretty standard - I might have the best hand and want to charge straight and flush draws to improve.


pokerstars, $3.11 + $0.39 - Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (3 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 1,551 (78 bb)
UTG+1: 1,395 (70 bb)
MP: 1,358 (68 bb)
MP+1: 3,001 (150 bb)
CO: 1,461 (73 bb)
BU (Hero): 2,085 (104 bb)
SB: 1,972 (99 bb)
BB: 677 (34 bb)

Pre-Flop: (54) Hero is BTN with A Q
5 players fold, Hero raises to 60, 1 fold, BB calls 40

Flop: (154) T J 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 80, BB raises to 270, BU (Hero) folds

Total pot: 314
BB wins 314

Using Equilab I've put V. on a range (when he raises) of:
QQ-77, AQs-ATs, KJs-KTs, QTs+, J8s+,
AQo-ATo, KJo+, QJo
KsQs, As9s, Ks9s, Qs9s, As8s, 9s8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s,

I was getting odds of 2.7:1 (27%), against the above range and Equilab says I had 37% equity so possibly should have continued. In-game I decided I didn't want to play a alrge pot with A-high this early in the tourney, but was I too nitty?
And what range would you put V. on when he raises my c-bet?

Thanks for any feedback, friends. I really do appreciate and try to learn from it!
 
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
Standard open.

Flop
I think, C-betting here is ok against some opponents, but it is worth noting, that this is a fairly wet board, and aggressive players can attack us with a lot of check-raising here. So I would be on board with this against a fish or a passive nit. But this guy is a LAG, so check-raising is certainly in his arsenal. He is also short, which widen the range of hands, he can commit with on the flop, and it gives you less room to continue against a check-raise. He might also be a little tilted, since he apparently lost more than half his chips in the first blind level.

So I think, you should have seen this coming, and since it puts you in a spot, where all your options suck, then its best to avoid it by checking back and taking a free card. Its always important to think that step ahead, and whenever our opponent is more likely to fold or raise than call, we typically want to avoid betting with middling strenght hands like this.

If you had a hand like 65 of diamonds, you dont mind to get raised, because you can just fold knowing, that whatever he has, he is almost certainly way ahead of 65 of diamonds. So you took a stab, and weather he continued by calling or raising, you would usually end up losing the hand, so getting raised was not a substantially worse outcome than getting called.

On the other side if you had a hand like KQ of spades or AJ, then you are happy to go with it on the flop and gamble with him, especially if you think, he is raising wide. So these hands are also fine candidates for a C-bet, because you have a clear and profitable plan, if the check-raise is coming. The video below goes more in depth with the topic of hand planning and thinking ahead.

 
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LuisBoaC

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Thanks again, concise advice as always. You may not believe but I have read, watched and taken notes on all of Collin and Katie's course and I continue to return to it.
I guess I just struggle with implementing everything I learn. There seems so much to consider and the timer ticking away really scrambles my thought process. But I'll keep going, tagging hands in-game that caused me problems and looking at them later, bringing them here if I'm still unsure.
Thanks for your continuing help.
 
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fundiver199

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I guess I just struggle with implementing everything I learn.

Dont worry about that. I have also plenty of times found myself in a situation, where I have C-bet, gotten check-raised and only then realised, that I kind of did this to myself, and now I have to fold a hand, which had a decent amount of equity. The important is to learn from and do it less often in the future :)
 
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popstani

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Totally agree with fundiver, checking and taking free card would be the best play here. With two overs and straight draw you had ton of equity, but you had to fold your hand, and I think you did good job doing that.
 
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eetenor

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 36/26/7

12th hand of the tourney. BB's HUD stats are from 52 hands. His 36% VPIP coupled with the fact he's in the BB makes me think he's on wide range.
I feel my flop c-bet was pretty standard - I might have the best hand and want to charge straight and flush draws to improve.


PokerStars, $3.11 + $0.39 - Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (3 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 1,551 (78 bb)
UTG+1: 1,395 (70 bb)
MP: 1,358 (68 bb)
MP+1: 3,001 (150 bb)
CO: 1,461 (73 bb)
BU (Hero): 2,085 (104 bb)
SB: 1,972 (99 bb)
BB: 677 (34 bb)

Pre-Flop: (54) Hero is BTN with A Q
5 players fold, Hero raises to 60, 1 fold, BB calls 40

Flop: (154) T J 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 80, BB raises to 270, BU (Hero) folds

Total pot: 314
BB wins 314

Using Equilab I've put V. on a range (when he raises) of:
QQ-77, AQs-ATs, KJs-KTs, QTs+, J8s+,
AQo-ATo, KJo+, QJo
KsQs, As9s, Ks9s, Qs9s, As8s, 9s8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s,

I was getting odds of 2.7:1 (27%), against the above range and Equilab says I had 37% equity so possibly should have continued. In-game I decided I didn't want to play a alrge pot with A-high this early in the tourney, but was I too nitty?
And what range would you put V. on when he raises my c-bet?

Thanks for any feedback, friends. I really do appreciate and try to learn from it!


Thank you for posting.

The data we would use to choose our flop action is:

V Stack size is only 4x pot before we bet 3x pot when we bet that is a check shove spot for a good V. Half pot bet not a good sizing as we found out as it gives the V more chips to win with their bluffs.
V stack size is also a call and stack off turn if equity increases including lead for pot or more so our sizing not best for us here.
This stack size is a go for it size so V will be confident to be agg here.

Our hand vs V range is not strong but not dead so bet fold is not a good choice -bet call is not good either as As Qs may be dead and Qx could also be near dead AX makes KQ a straight etc. Very unclear if we improve or not on turn when we hit anything but a non spade K

If I were to bet it would be to bet fold and it would be 25% pot.
I would check to try to control pot and not have to fold to a check raise which we should do based on V stack size.
Equity realization has more value in this spot than getting flop folds.
We can also use a delayed c-bet to pressure the short stack on the turn. The delayed c-bet is good even with AA KK QQ AK no spade.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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LuisBoaC

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Thanks everyone. And eetenor, that does help thank you - definitely some things there that I wasn't considering.
 
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