$3.40 NLHE STT Turbo: Call raise with AJ, hit TP bad flop

[pat3392]

$3.40 NL HE STT Turbo: Call raise with AJ, hit TP bad flop

poker stars $3.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t1500 75 BBs
SB: t1500 75 BBs
Hero (BB): t1500 75 BBs
UTG: t1500 75 BBs
UTG+1: t1500 75 BBs
UTG+2: t1500 75 BBs
MP1: t1500 75 BBs
MP2: t1500 75 BBs
CO: t1500 75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with A:heart: J:heart:
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t60, 3 folds, BTN calls t60, 1 fold, Hero calls t40

Flop: (t190) T:diamond: Q:club: A:spade: (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, BTN bets t120, Hero folds, UTG+2 folds

I folded here because I figured I didn't beat much; I only beat KQ/KJ, A8/A9 and pockets, so if he barreled the turn I'd be in a tricky spot. I usually fold the AJ here pre but I was being a lot more loose/aggressive this game. Was that too loose of a call?

 

[Marginal]

I hate your fold on the flop, I hate it. Its worth atleast a call. Preflop the call is standard, you cant 3 bet but you have good equity. Button only has 4 hands that beat you, AT AQ KJ TT. Worth a call. dont forget people in the micros will value bet Ax as well

 

[WiZZiM]

I think your forgetting this is an UTG raise, so a normal bad range is stronger than say a CO raise. However we did hit our flop, there are loads of hands we are way ahead of. I'm probably taking a pot control line and calling here, when we called preflop with AJ this isn't the ideal flop for us. But it isn't bad either, i hate raise/getting it in here. Call and re-evaluate the turn, if he fires again, i'm not sure if we are ahead enough to get it in. kind of a tough turn situation if he does bet out. But yeah agree we can't just fold the flop here.

 

[Marginal]

utg raised preflop but button bet the flop

 

[WiZZiM]

Ahhhh ok then, that changes a lot. scratch what i wrote above.

 

[pat3392]

I think your forgetting this is an UTG raise, so a normal bad range is stronger than say a CO raise. However we did hit our flop, there are loads of hands we are way ahead of. I'm probably taking a pot control line and calling here, when we called preflop with AJ this isn't the ideal flop for us. But it isn't bad either, i hate raise/getting it in here. Call and re-evaluate the turn, if he fires again, i'm not sure if we are ahead enough to get it in. kind of a tough turn situation if he does bet out. But yeah agree we can't just fold the flop here.

I think probably fold to decent sized turn bet since we would be fairly committed by the river? Assuming that the turn is a dud

 

[pat3392]

Wouldn't villain have to have something decent because those cards hit UTG raisers range fairly hard, so a check-raise is reasonably likely? Or should have I sort of assumed he is fairly a fairly bad player to play like that and hence, probably has bad cards

 

[WiZZiM]

If hes thinking about that sort of thing, which i highly doubt.

 

[pat3392]

If hes thinking about that sort of thing, which i highly doubt.

Hmm I think I'm giving my opponents too much credit. So if he barreled the turn would a call/fold be optimal?

 

[WiZZiM]

Honestly, i think i'm getting it in, but i really don't know for sure. Since the button calling range probably contains a lot of Ax type hands, i'm probably shipping it.

 

[Rldetheflop]

I think this is a definite fold pf. Its the first few hands of the tourney so we have no reads and we are oop to an EP raise and a call. These are the type of hands we get stacked with because we really have no idea where we are in the hand.

as played its a tough spot i think(why I dump this pf). As Wizz says Ax is in the buttons range(maybe, no reads) but I would say A7 is the bottom of the range so basically we crush A7-9,KQ, QJ J10, but are crushed by AQ, AK, A10, KJ,Q10, 10 10.(left out AA and QQ as villain 3-bets pf).So it seems like we are basically about 50/50 here to be ahead. now if we flat the flop the turn will likely produce even more possibilities to be behind and again facing another round oop.

all the options are sucky but for me I think I raise to about 280 and fold to a reraise. If nothing else it may slow down a turn bet.


raise>fold>call imo.

 

[pat3392]

I think this is a definite fold pf. Its the first few hands of the tourney so we have no reads and we are oop to an EP raise and a call. These are the type of hands we get stacked with because we really have no idea where we are in the hand.

as played its a tough spot i think(why I dump this pf). As Wizz says Ax is in the buttons range(maybe, no reads) but I would say A7 is the bottom of the range so basically we crush A7-9,KQ, QJ J10, but are crushed by AQ, AK, A10, KJ,Q10, 10 10.(left out AA and QQ as villain 3-bets pf).So it seems like we are basically about 50/50 here to be ahead. now if we flat the flop the turn will likely produce even more possibilities to be behind and again facing another round oop.

all the options are sucky but for me I think I raise to about 280 and fold to a reraise. If nothing else it may slow down a turn bet.


raise>fold>call imo.

so basically bluff with a hand that has value

 

[WiZZiM]

I think this is a definite fold pf. Its the first few hands of the tourney so we have no reads and we are oop to an EP raise and a call. These are the type of hands we get stacked with because we really have no idea where we are in the hand.

as played its a tough spot i think(why I dump this pf). As Wizz says Ax is in the buttons range(maybe, no reads) but I would say A7 is the bottom of the range so basically we crush A7-9,KQ, QJ J10, but are crushed by AQ, AK, A10, KJ,Q10, 10 10.(left out AA and QQ as villain 3-bets pf).So it seems like we are basically about 50/50 here to be ahead. now if we flat the flop the turn will likely produce even more possibilities to be behind and again facing another round oop.

all the options are sucky but for me I think I raise to about 280 and fold to a reraise. If nothing else it may slow down a turn bet.


raise>fold>call imo.

Fold? if your horrible at playing postflop, then sure, fold it. But this hand plays extremely well postflop, it's suited as well. The type of hands we're looking for are straights/flushes/two pair type hands to get stacks in. hitting top pair is good, but not somehting we want to get stack in often. so i understand your thinking behind saying fold preflop. But were closing the action, with great implied odds, it would be a sin to fold this preflop. Just need to be careful in situations where you do flop TP.

However i have to disagree with your ranges, most bad players at this level will call with A2s stuff like that, so i can't discount them out of the range entirely, not to mention all of the other SC type hands that sort of hit this flop. So i feel (without doing any calculations) that we are ahead here often enough to ship it in. I'm not in love with it, if the UTG had cbet i'm probably calling/folding turn. but since the buttons range here is so wide i'm happier to get it in.

 

[cardplayer52]

I find micro players at fulltilt will never just check behind ever. I don't play at stars but would imagine the button must be betting a ton of hands he should be checking. While he could have a hand the hits that flop he could also have PP's that missed completely he now feels he needs to bet. There are a ton of weaker aces as well as gut shot draws and 2nd or bottom pair hands he might bet here as well. I'd call the flop and go from there. Considering the pot is >20% your stack after the flop bet a shove could be considered(pending mostly on the UTG+1's opening range).

 

[OzExorcist]

I'm a little bit worried about a check-raise coming from UTG+2, given that (as WiZ pointed out above) they should have a fairly strong range in that position and a lot of it hit this flop.

The button can be betting all sorts of stuff though. Our range looks pretty weak since we made a discounted call preflop and then checked all those scary big cards on the flop. Any ace in the button's hand probably feels like it's good and it wants to bet to stop the rest of you drawing and loads of other stuff probably feels like it can bet and push you both out as well. By no means are we always ahead, but I think we're good enough of the time and we've got our gutshot that we'll hit occasionally to catch up as well.

That said, raising the flop and then getting shoved over by either UTG+2 or the button would suck mightily. I've gotta go with the other guys, call the flop (fold if UTG+2 does check raise I guess) and reevaluate the turn.

 

[Rldetheflop]

so basically bluff with a hand that has value

no I am saying find out if your hand has value or not.

 

[Rldetheflop]

Fold? if your horrible at playing postflop, then sure, fold it. But this hand plays extremely well postflop, it's suited as well. The type of hands we're looking for are straights/flushes/two pair type hands to get stacks in. hitting top pair is good, but not somehting we want to get stack in often. so i understand your thinking behind saying fold preflop. But were closing the action, with great implied odds, it would be a sin to fold this preflop. Just need to be careful in situations where you do flop TP.

However i have to disagree with your ranges, most bad players at this level will call with A2s stuff like that, so i can't discount them out of the range entirely, not to mention all of the other SC type hands that sort of hit this flop. So i feel (without doing any calculations) that we are ahead here often enough to ship it in. I'm not in love with it, if the UTG had cbet i'm probably calling/folding turn. but since the buttons range here is so wide i'm happier to get it in.

well I think you are right that his range is probably wider than we assign, however its the first few hands of the tourney so we really have no idea about his range.

After reconsidering I changed my mind on C/R the flop. How about leading out? of course then you could easily get raised from the original raiser and we are in the same spot but for more chips. As I said I think all of the options kinda suck that is why I fold pf. These are exactly the type of situations we want to avoid in low-blind play, oop with marginal hands.