$3.30 NLHE MTT Rebuy: TPGK facing Three decent sized bets

JohnBoyWWFC

JohnBoyWWFC

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 27/20/3

So, doing well in a $3.30 rebuy on Stars, called this hand out of the blinds because so many people came in, saw some value in it, wondered what the general consensus was on the river here, call or fold?

Don't really have much info on the guy other than the stats above since I'd only been at the table for 15 hands but he had every reason to perhaps believe I was a bit fishy since I'd played a lot of hands (Got QQ twice and KK in those 15 hands, think my stats thus far was something like 50/25). Only other info I had was that he was playing in a lot of bigger tournaments including a $109 and a $162 so I had reason to believe he was a decent player. I'll shut up now and post the hand.


Poker Stars - $3.00+0.30 Tournament (#437010927) - Blinds: 300/600 +100 Ante, No Limit Hold'em (9 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB Hero: t38,013
BB: t10,806
UTG: t74,353
UTG+1: t40,991
MP: t15,372
MP+1: t17,975
MP+2: t29,411
CO: t35,152
BTN: t15,264

Pre-flop: (t900) Hero is SB and dealt :js4: :kc4:
UTG raises to t1,200, 2 folds, MP+1 calls t1,200, 2 folds, BTN calls t1,200, Hero calls t900, BB calls t600

Flop: (t6,000) :ks4: :qc4: :5c4: (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets t2,400, 2 folds, Hero calls t2,400, BB folds

Turn: (t10,800) :ks4: :qc4: :5c4: :3h4: (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t7,200, Hero calls t7,200

River: (t25,200) :ks4: :qc4: :5c4: :3h4: :5d4: (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t23,400,
 
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WiZZiM

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Just fold pre, the only value in it is when we flop two pair or a straight, which doesnt happen often enough to justify calling 800 in the worst position at the table. Suited kj plays a ton better. As played we're vs an utg range, we're likely dominated a lot here, so probably fold flop, as we have no idea if he will continue barrelling and we're unlikely to get to showdown cheaply, but definitely fold the turn.

And definitely fold preflop if you can't seem to let go of top pair in these spots.
 
fletchdad

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UTG min raise seems strong to me. His line seems to be trying to get value out of every street. On the other hand, you think he is a good player, and he may want you to think precisely that.

But a good player min raising UTG especially with the stacks following would make me cautious here. I guess I am taking some kind of C/R or C/F on the flop here, depending on how I perceive UTG opening range and how I fare against that on this flop. And I am thinking I am WA or WB and probably WB.

You could push here on the flop, but I dont have enough info to tell me he is a habitual c-bettor and I can take this pot here and now, so fold or C/R would be my only 2 moves of choice on this flop. I may be naive here, but I think I am just getting out of this hand on the flop.
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

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Just fold pre, the only value in it is when we flop two pair or a straight, which doesnt happen often enough to justify calling 800 in the worst position at the table. Suited kj plays a ton better. As played we're vs an utg range, we're likely dominated a lot here, so probably fold flop, as we have no idea if he will continue barrelling and we're unlikely to get to showdown cheaply, but definitely fold the turn.

And definitely fold preflop if you can't seem to let go of top pair in these spots.

Sometimes I answer a thread, and feel like I put some thought into it, then I read another response from someone like WizziM and realize I am thinking in the wrong places and too late. (And not enough)

Yea, the fold pre makes sense, for reasons stated.
 
JohnBoyWWFC

JohnBoyWWFC

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Yeah, I agree that I should have but once I got to that spot, I'm curious as to what kind of hand people would put him on. Seems the general consensus is, the river fold was right. I still think he could show up with AJcc type hand here sometimes, especially with the sizing of the river bet- if he really was looking for a call her with QQ or something similar, why is he almost pot-betting and making me commit all but 3k of my stack.
 
Poker Orifice

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, why is he almost pot-betting and making me commit all but 3k of my stack.
Maybe he figures you can't fold? That you actually have a hand.
Villain is raising from utg & then cbetting into a multiway pot.

KJ is a terrible hand to play OOP, even worse in a multiway pot. Has huge reverse implied odds. (I have a couple players I back occassionally & when I see them call off w KJ... I go thru the roof!.... "King..JacK!!".. it's sooo pretty with the two pictures & everything!!!"... then go into a speel about how gross it is to play it OOP & how they're spewing by doing so.)
Why not keep the 60+bb's pre & look to pick wayyy better spots?
 
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baudib1

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Give up by the turn, if he's bluffing into 4 people on this board after raising UTG, good for him.

preflop, I'd call with KJs but KJo just doesn't play well enough in a multiway pot.

In this spot, in SB vs. UTG raise with a bunch of callers, I'd probably only call with pocket pairs to set mine.
 
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jbbb

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In these kinda MTT's the good players will bet massive on their big hands because people call way too much. They bet smaller and usually just give up in big pots b/c there isn't massive value in bluffing passive fish which he probably percieves you as due to your stats. It looks like thats what he's doing here w/ KK,QQ,AA or most likely AK due to combo's which follows with his UTG minraise
 
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WiZZiM

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I think villians bet size is a mistake no matter what here really, he forces way too many folds. The turn/river are just way too dead, i think he could have bet a lot smaller here on the river if he was thinking instead of just mashing buttons.
 
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baudib1

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Villain thinks hero is a station.

In this spot I don't mind overbet shoving with something like QQ, AA when all draws missed and we beat top 2.
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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I'm not sure his bet sizing is bad if he has a hand like AJcc, but then the large bet on the turn doesn't really work with that. Also, people are saying he perceives me as a passive fish, I don't see why, I've actually been pretty aggressive since I got to the table.
 
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RamdeeBen

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I think if your intention was calling down to the turn and commiting half your stack nearly then doesn't anyone like raising the flop here to at least see what A,K/A,Q does here if that is indeed what he holds?

On another note, you played your hand so much like you was on a draw that even his A,10/A,J will be good to him most times or medium pair for him.

Another thing is that his stack is so huge, he can be raising so much even from UTG here I think, 6'6+ I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up with A,8s+A,J and missed his own draw.

If he's wanting value out of his A,K/A,Q hands here he is never pot betting the river with a missed draw out there is he, what would be expect you to call of nearly all your stack here with?

I think as played, he thinks you missed your draw so I call but hey I'm a donkey and others advice are most likely more accurate but maybe like PO says, I might be one of those who get giddy and think his K,J is good here and I think it might be to be honest at this point just based on his pot sized river bet.

I think he holds A,10/A,J or a medium pair "maybe" A,Q.

Again though, if you dont have any info on him, folding or raising the flop is the only option, I jsut don't think flatting down to the river and being left with that bet is ideal.
 
Poker Orifice

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I think as played, he thinks you missed your draw .
If he actually 'think's this ^, then whey would he fire so big on river? Why wouldn't he c/C thinking villain's only chance at the pot was to bluff river w mis'd draw. This makes NO sense to me at all.
 
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