$3.3 NLHE MTT: $3,3 NLHE : Would you have shoved in this hand?

[PokerJudas]

Ok, it`s my first post here so first of all a big Hello! It`s a very nice forum and I enjoy reading it in my effort to become a better poker player.

However, I like to improve my game. Especially working on the final third of big tournaments. Yesterday I had worked myself up to a pretty nice stack in a pokerstars tourney and ran into a hand with a guy who didn`t seem to know what he was doing previously before this hand. However, the hand Im gonna ask you about I lost so I guess Im the fool here...

I would like to ask you if you would have folded this nut flush draw or shoved like I did with my stack-size? Maybe I should have reraised it preflop, but I don`t think I would get rid of the low-pair guy who hit his set on the flop...

I look forward to you input

PokerStars Hand #83947799062: Tournament #591010076, $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2012/07/28 8:02:41 CET [2012/07/28 2:02:41 ET]
Table '591010076 74' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: taeyeon24 (4826 in chips)
Seat 2: IlmaineVaiva (4815 in chips)
Seat 3: BallnMrJones (6344 in chips)
Seat 4: chumpion444 (7918 in chips)
Seat 5: PokerJudas (9998 in chips)
Seat 6: 0morrisd (4452 in chips)
Seat 7: DanielAC (3572 in chips)
Seat 8: AAA333king (2620 in chips)
Seat 9: TheGodFish72 (3000 in chips)
taeyeon24: posts the ante 10
IlmaineVaiva: posts the ante 10
BallnMrJones: posts the ante 10
chumpion444: posts the ante 10
PokerJudas: posts the ante 10
0morrisd: posts the ante 10
DanielAC: posts the ante 10
AAA333king: posts the ante 10
TheGodFish72: posts the ante 10
PokerJudas: posts small blind 40
0morrisd: posts big blind 80
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PokerJudas [As Qs]
DanielAC: raises 215 to 295
AAA333king: folds
TheGodFish72: folds
taeyeon24: folds
IlmaineVaiva: calls 295
BallnMrJones: calls 295
chumpion444: folds
PokerJudas: calls 255
0morrisd: folds
*** FLOP *** [2c 6s 4s]
PokerJudas bets 1215
DanielAC: folds
IlmaineVaiva: raises 3295 to 4510 and is all-in
BallnMrJones: raises 1529 to 6039 and is all-in
PokerJudas: calls 4824
*** TURN *** [2c 6s 4s] K♦
*** RIVER *** [2c 6s 4s Kd] J♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PokerJudas: shows [As Qs] (high card Ace)
BallnMrJones: shows [4h 4d] (three of a kind, Fours)
BallnMrJones collected 3058 from side pot
IlmaineVaiva: shows [5s 8s] (high card King)
BallnMrJones collected 14880 from main pot
IlmaineVaiva finished the tournament in 1484th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 17938 Main pot 14880. Side pot 3058. | Rake 0
Board [2c 6s 4s Kd Jh]
Seat 1: taeyeon24 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: IlmaineVaiva showed [5s 8s] and lost with high card King
Seat 3: BallnMrJones showed [4h 4d] and won (17938) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 4: chumpion444 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: PokerJudas (small blind) showed [As Qs] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 6: 0morrisd (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: DanielAC folded on the Flop
Seat 8: AAA333king folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: TheGodFish72 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[doomasiggy]

4x raise from UTG from an unknown opponent usually means TT+ or AKs. That plus the two callers plus our stack size basically makes me think just fold pre and wait for a better spot.

Don't like overbetting the pot. Very easy for us to be up against an overpair here and we lose outs if UTG has QQ/AA, both of which are very easily in his opening range. Plus with the two callers we could easily be up against a set.

Once the two players go in I think our equity drops to about 25% so we need to be getting at least 4:1 to call. We're getting slightly over 2:1, so this is a fold.

As played we should bet smaller on the flop to control the pot size, call a raise and fold to a 3-bet. Fold if we don't hit a flush on the turn.

In the future, don't post results in the HH, it biases the advice you're given.

 

[PokerJudas]

Thanks for the advice! So how much would you have bet the flop? My intention to bet the flop as I did was to either make them fold, and if not...I still had outs. However, I do agree this was a bit of a bingo-move to join the all-in. These situations is the ones I need to learn folding/reading...

 

[doomasiggy]

Thanks for the advice! So how much would you have bet the flop?

About 400.

My intention to bet the flop as I did was to either make them fold,

You have 100 big blinds and it's early in the mtt. We really shouldn't be taking any risks at this point in the tournament. That's not to say we shouldn't be playing for all our chips if we have, say, KK on a 6d Jd 3c board, but at this point in the tourney we shouldn't be attempting to bluff people off pots at all imo.

 

[PokerJudas]

I agree with you mate

I had stack to sit tight and don`t waste it like this... I had played excellent poker up to this spot, made some bluffs when I saw weakness, and played some sollid good poker. Unfortunatly I think that was what caught me and I got to frisky...

well, I hopefully learn from this because as you said I was in a great shape with 100bbs.

Thanx again for ur input!

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Maybe 3bet PF?

 

[doomasiggy]

Maybe 3bet PF?

Read dependent with AQo and the UTG raiser imo. Think standard against most villains is just to fold.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Read dependent with AQo and the UTG raiser imo. Think standard against most villains is just to fold.

He's got AQs, flopping the NFD while OOP in m-way pot.

With these stack sizes, I'm not likely to donkbet this flop & certainly not for a'POT'-sized bet. I'm more apt. to c/C c/r depending upon action ahead of me here. I'll post more of what I think later (heading out now but couldn't resist responding to thread).

Also, HINT: Do NOT post the results of the hand (at least not in your initial post). Post up until your turn to act. In this case
Dealt to PokerJudas [As Qs]
DanielAC: raises 215 to 295
AAA333king: folds
TheGodFish72: folds
taeyeon24: folds
IlmaineVaiva: calls 295
BallnMrJones: calls 295
chumpion444: folds
PokerJudas: calls 255
0morrisd: folds
*** FLOP *** [2c 6s 4s]
PokerJudas bets 1215
DanielAC: folds
IlmaineVaiva: raises 3295 to 4510 and is all-in
BallnMrJones: raises 1529 to 6039 and is all-in
PokerJudas: ????

Personally I'd be first asking > We have AQs in SB & there's a UTG raise & 2 callers... HERO > ??

We elect to 'call' the raise.
We Flop the NFD & are first to act, HERO > ???

etc. etc.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Read dependent with AQo and the UTG raiser imo. Think standard against most villains is just to fold.

AQs squeeze and I see a lot of dead money wich you could pick up without a SD and otherwise with a caller I want to have iniative in the hand pick it up most of the times with a small cbet.

Don't see the UTG raiser 4bet without a real good hand (JJ+ AK) because there are still 2 players behind tough I think the 2 callers never have a strong range in this spot .

And the top of UTG 4bet range could give you a lot of trouble with a call OOP if you hit an ace or a queen high flop.

I would fold vs a 4bet from UTG.

Your comment has a lot of truth in it,but I am just that agressive guy.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Personally I'd be first asking > We have AQs in SB & there's a UTG raise & 2 callers... HERO > ??

We elect to 'call' the raise.
We Flop the NFD & are first to act, HERO > ???

etc. etc.

Good way to look at hands

Also agree with not putting in the results and hands of villains.

 

[duggs]

this is a 3 dollar tourney, 3bet pre for value please. as played get it in and hit you flush or overcards.

 

[duggs]

also v fish i dont see how initiative really matters. they cbet when they hit and check when they dont, and they always call with worse, so just bet/raise for value.