$3.3 NL HE MTT: 3.3 turbo ko: Set on an opened-straight board

dallam

dallam

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Here's the hand :9d4::9s4: from MP1 with 47bbs: https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/92598HFSC
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Wondering what OP's check-raise range in this particular situation?
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Even tho we invested much in it, in long term is it rewardable to get rid of Turn? / River? / or can we ever call the River in the hopes of two pairs?
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Tell me your thoughts! :)
 
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
Standard open.

Flop
I like a big C-bet on this wet board, charging them to draw and getting max value from top pair, because the board kills your action. Ideally you want to induce them to just go with their hand right now and get it in here on the flop.

Turn
The J does complete KQ and Q8, which were gutshots on the flop. But even so I still think, you are likely to have the best hand here, and he could easily be leading with two pair or a turned top pair. The board is even wetter now, and if you just call, its less than a half pot sized bet left for the river. I dont think, you are inducing a lot of bluffs by slowplaying here, so I would just jam and be done. If he does have a straight, you still have 10 outs to fill up, so its not like, you are drawing dead.

River
Now there is a 1-liner to both a K and 8, and now I dont think, he is betting any hand worse than yours for value. So now you have a pure bluff catcher. Clubs did miss, and you are getting a good price. But there are also a lot of hands, that beat you now. So I dont know man. I would not have seen the river like this, but if I did, I actually lean towards a fold as played. Should say that I have not yet looked at the results.

Results
So he turned the nuts. Not exactly a shocker, but I still like getting it in on the turn.
 
L

LemonadeJooe

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Pre-flop:
Your raise is too small with so many opp. to act.
min. 4-5 bb is preferred.

Flop:
we flopped a set on a wet board.
We need to bet min. 100% of the pot to offer bad pot odds for draws to call.

Turn:
Broadway hands now completed straight.
We should slow down and call small bet.

River:
thanks to our opp. actions on turn and river we now know we are against straight so we can fold.

Conclusion:
By betting too smal pre-flop we offered great odds for marginal hands to call into many opps. left to act.
On the flop we didn't bet enough for protection and value and allowed our opps. to see turn card cheaply.
On the turn we made ok call.

On the river we made hero call into opp. that showed us exactly what kind of hand he had.
Unless we had read on our opp. to be ultra pure bluffer or very bad opp. that overvalues top pair we should have folded.
 
Last edited:
eetenor

eetenor

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Here's the hand :9d4::9s4: from MP1 with 47bbs: https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/92598HFSC
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Wondering what OP's check-raise range in this particular situation?
.
Even tho we invested much in it, in long term is it rewardable to get rid of Turn? / River? / or can we ever call the River in the hopes of two pairs?
.
Tell me your thoughts! :)
in 3 way pots using a 33% pot sizing on flop is more effective than half pot or more sizing-it is due to the pressure of the third player on the other player making the bet more powerful as we are only bet top of range and bluffs. It is also very effective specifically on boards like this where there are several high equity draws that we need to fade to win like this one and that we do not have the nuts nor blockers to the nuts and both our V have 87 in their ranges-
This has the added benefit of making the pot smaller on the turn so we can call to decide river if a nasty card like this one hits-
As played the V could have two pair hands and lead turn so calling is fine with our redraw to the nuts (smaller pot hopefully- in your player pool is this the sizing two pair would choose most frequently on such an dynamic board?

On the river if we had AK we just made the nuts yet our V is going all-in If we had KK we make a straight so we do have nut hands so that might make me lean towards the V being nutted more often here than 2 pairs-based on player pool tendencies
Vs a balanced player on the river MDF has us call 99
How likely is your player pool to be balanced?

You did nothing wrong by calling some V are going to shove worse there not understanding what they are targeting for value.
The 2 most important points are
1 using 33% is the much better sizing
2 Knowing how nutty your player pool is in a spot like this when they bet like this.
 
Last edited:
D

DaMooca

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I don't know... but there is no bluff in this spot, the guy is out of position and shoves on a board like this!??
From the position you opened, you could have several K in your hand, AK, KQ, KJ... if he had an 8 he would probably check there.
 
LUKADONCICMVP

LUKADONCICMVP

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i liked how u played the hand besides the river i think they rarely bluffing on that spot.
 
W

WellAA

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Nothing wrong the way You played, maybe bet pot on the flop, or all-in, some say isn't polished to do it. Was the only way out of the loop, when faced by such bet and running away scared.
 
H

HeiligerKevin

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I don't know... but there is no bluff in this spot, the guy is out of position and shoves on a board like this!??
From the position you opened, you could have several K in your hand, AK, KQ, KJ... if he had an 8 he would probably check there.
No bluffs, except any flush draw, but still he most of the times is only bluff-catching at the river.
 
H

HeiligerKevin

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Pre-flop:
Your raise is too small with so many opp. to act.
min. 4-5 bb is preferred.

Flop:
we flopped a set on a wet board.
We need to bet min. 100% of the pot to offer bad pot odds for draws to call.

Turn:
Broadway hands now completed straight.
We should slow down and call small bet.

River:
thanks to our opp. actions on turn and river we now know we are against straight so we can fold.

Conclusion:
By betting too smal pre-flop we offered great odds for marginal hands to call into many opps. left to act.
On the flop we didn't bet enough for protection and value and allowed our opps. to see turn card cheaply.
On the turn we made ok call.

On the river we made hero call into opp. that showed us exactly what kind of hand he had.
Unless we had read on our opp. to be ultra pure bluffer or very bad opp. that overvalues top pair we should have folded.
Raising to big Pre-flop won't get you any chips, since worse hands often fold and better hands call and the opponents could pick up on this. There were only folds so I personally like a bet of 2.5bb (but max. 3bb).
Furthermore the sizing on the flop seems pretty right, since you still want to realize your equity and get their chips and still can turn and river a full house.
 
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