$3.00 SNG: Was I wrong to slowplay this hand? 2 pair vs. 2 pair.

R

Rattlin' Bones

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Feb 15, 2008
Total posts
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Site: PKR.com (sorry, not supported by the hand converter)
Game: $3.00 + .30, 10-person SNG
Conditions: Villains both playing loose-aggressive.

Table #6476751 - STT #4452861
Starting Hand #323283759
Last Hand #323283260
Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: TOURNAMENT
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now $50/$100
Button is at seat 1
Seat 1: platty - $1,190
Seat 2: CHiLLEN - $1,700
Seat 3: RattlinBones - $1,140
Seat 4: BurtBrockfield - $860
Seat 5: Krisxiii - $7,520
Seat 9: idosh69 - $2,590
Moving Button to seat 2
RattlinBones posts small blind ($50)
BurtBrockfield posts big blind ($100)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [Qh Jh] to RattlinBones
Krisxiii folds
idosh69 folds
platty calls $100
CHiLLEN folds
RattlinBones calls $100
BurtBrockfield checks
Dealing Flop [Js 7h Qd]
RattlinBones checks
BurtBrockfield checks
platty checks
Dealing Turn A♠
RattlinBones checks
BurtBrockfield checks
platty checks
Dealing River 2♠
RattlinBones checks
BurtBrockfield bets $100
platty raises to $200
RattlinBones raises to $1,040 (all-in)
BurtBrockfield folds
platty calls $1,040
platty shows [Ad 7c]
RattlinBones shows [Qh Jh]
RattlinBones has Two Pairs: Queens, Jacks
platty has Two Pairs: Aces, 7s
platty wins $2,480 with: Two Pairs: Aces, 7s
Seat 1: platty - $2,530
Seat 2: CHiLLEN - $1,700
Seat 3: RattlinBones - $0
Seat 4: BurtBrockfield - $660
Seat 5: Krisxiii - $7,520
Seat 9: idosh69 - $2,590
End Of Hand #323283759


I've learned the dangers of overusing the slowplay, but I thought this hand warranted it considering the play of my opponents in what had thus far been an extemely wild SNG. I knew I could do well at this game if I tightened up, but I thought calling with this hand was the right move, and I'd just ditch it if I didn't hit the flop hard.

I couldn't have put either opponent on AJ or AQ. They may have been loose, but they were aggressive enough to at least put forth small raises on top hands. I guess maybe I should have thought twice about Q7 or J7, but really, what are the chances? And with the blinds being as high as they were, I didn't have enough chips to put out feeler bets (especially considering also my opponents' stack sizes.)

I was pretty much 100% sure that betting the flop would result in my opponents folding, netting only a 300 chip pot. Knowing their aggressive tendencies, I knew I could incite a bet, and get all my chips in with what I presumed was the best hand. When the ace came on the turn, I was actually jumping for joy! I thought it would be what got me action and would allow me to bust one of these guys. When a third spade came on the river, I was a little worried, but didn't think I could factor it into my decision.

So did I overvalue my two pair, or was I just extremely unlucky? Was a kind of crushing defeat, as I felt that I'd really been sharpening up my play lately.
 
R

Rattlin' Bones

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Feb 15, 2008
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Okay. After reflection, and reading some replies at another forum, I'm pretty sure this was a donkey move, now. (Which I knew a lot of slowplays when you're inexperienced can be... I just ludicrously thought there was some justification for doing so in this case.)

So, please be gentle when you destroy me. Or, don't feel the need to reply at all, unless you can tell me there was something about my thought process that was right.


Reasons my play was extremely dangerous:

1. There was a straight draw on the board, and the turn made it. KT is a common limping hand.

2. I was slowplaying against multiple opponents (very easy to backfire).

3. After the river, a flush could conceivably have been made (though unlikely). But this was good argument for simply calling the bet rather than pushing back, over the top.


It was dumb. I know. It was extremely unlucky that I was busted by a higher two pair, but I should have known it was possible I would get beat by a straight or flush. And somehow, I didn't even realize the straight. (I guess I was tired, or just on a rush from flopping the two pair.)

I was just thinking my hand would probably hold up, and wanted to get paid off more than 300 chips considering my stack and the blinds. That said, is there any way to calculate how often my two pair would have help up?

Lesson learned. Please don't crush. :(
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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I was just thinking my hand would probably hold up, and wanted to get paid off more than 300 chips considering my stack and the blinds. That said, is there any way to calculate how often my two pair would have help up?


Against his specific hand you were 80/20 to win. If you give me a range of hands that you'd put him on I could give you a better idea. Or get yourself PokerStove and solve these questions yurself.
 
renegades8

renegades8

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I'm fine with the preflop call, but folding was a good option as well. You said it's been an extremely wild SNG, so I'm presuming there had been lots of raising? If that's the case, why not put out a small bet in hopes of getting raised so you can get all of the money in there when you're way ahead? It's a pretty scary board, with the types of hands they're playing it's likely someone has a straight draw, so why not bet there in hopes of them chasing? If you're going to check the flop, atleast check the turn to try to get paid off. If you bet there you can atleast get paid off by draws that will miss, instead of betting on the river when they'll fold, and only made hands will call. On the river just call there, way too scary of a board and quite a bit of action behind you.

As for being "unlucky", sure you were unlucky, but you also made the hand play out that way. You let him hit for free, and he's probably folding every time he misses and calling every time he's beating you, so it's lose-lose for you.
 
R

Rattlin' Bones

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You think its fine to call pre flop with q,j for an 1/8th of your stack? I say push or fold pre flop

Keep in mind I've learned a heck of a lot and have refreshed what ever semblance of a decent game I had since playing that hand....

But, considering pot odds of 6:1, isn't calling 50 chips from the SB with QJo acceptable? Yes, I've learned that, considering equity at this stage of the tournament and the probable loose play of my opponents, pushing is better. But isn't calling okay? I guess it's a question of whether I can expect to get better cards/favourable table conditions before I'll have to shove all-in with any two.
 
S

switch0723

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Keep in mind I've learned a heck of a lot and have refreshed what ever semblance of a decent game I had since playing that hand....

But, considering pot odds of 6:1, isn't calling 50 chips from the SB with QJo acceptable? Yes, I've learned that, considering equity at this stage of the tournament and the probable loose play of my opponents, pushing is better. But isn't calling okay? I guess it's a question of whether I can expect to get better cards/favourable table conditions before I'll have to shove all-in with any two.

^^^ something went wrong with the hand history. It says you called for 100 chips. Calling for 50 from the sb is acceptable, which what it appears you did, but the hh shows that you called 100, which isnt acceptable if you ever get in that situation
 
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Kymi10

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I'm not a huge fan of slowplaying 2 pairs on the flop especially with the straight-draw out there. And the ace on the turn was a really bad card completing the straight draw or higher 2 pairs than what you had. Would have lead out on the flop myself.
 
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rakbarak

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i never slow play in SNG. you must be agressive with 2 pairs to see if the player has the straight-draw. If you 3bet, he fold his A7.
 
renegades8

renegades8

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i never slow play in SNG. you must be agressive with 2 pairs to see if the player has the straight-draw. If you 3bet, he fold his A7.
You're not really backing up your point. You want him to get it in with A7 there, unless you hate money of course.
 
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