$.25 NLHE MTT: AQs on the SB vs BTN limp

[tewwa94]

Am I commited on the flop? should I just shove? I think the sizing preflop was ok and I was going to fold if BB shoved (it was the final table of a s&g, I don't know if folding would've been good). On the flop BTN can have pretty much anything but the SPR is so low that I don't know.


pokerstars - 100/200 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

Hero (SB): 10,815 (54.1 bb)
BB: 4,992 (25 bb)
UTG: 7,261 (36.3 bb)
UTG+1: 3,416 (17.1 bb)
MP: 2,699 (13.5 bb)
CO: 4,932 (24.7 bb)
BTN: 3,479 (17.4 bb)

7 players post ante of 25, Hero posts SB 100, BB posts 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 475) Hero has
4 folds, BTN calls 200, Hero raises to 1,000, fold, BTN calls 800

Flop: (2,375, 2 players)
Hero bets 800, fold

Results: 2,375 pot (0 rake)
Final Board:

Hero wins 2,375

 

[ph_il]

Flop is fairly coordinated and I'm likely folding to a jam if I bet.

So, I think checking behind is fine to see if I can catch a J, A, or diamond on the turn and go from there.

 

[ssbn743]

Am I commited on the flop? should I just shove? I think the sizing preflop was ok and I was going to fold if BB shoved (it was the final table of a s&g, I don't know if folding would've been good). On the flop BTN can have pretty much anything but the SPR is so low that I don't know.


PokerStars - 100/200 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

Hero (SB): 10,815 (54.1 bb)
BB: 4,992 (25 bb)
UTG: 7,261 (36.3 bb)
UTG+1: 3,416 (17.1 bb)
MP: 2,699 (13.5 bb)
CO: 4,932 (24.7 bb)
BTN: 3,479 (17.4 bb)

7 players post ante of 25, Hero posts SB 100, BB posts 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 475) Hero has
4 folds, BTN calls 200, Hero raises to 1,000, fold, BTN calls 800

Flop: (2,375, 2 players)
Hero bets 800, fold

Results: 2,375 pot (0 rake)
Final Board:

Hero wins 2,375

Firstly, being "pot-committed" is generally only an excuse and most would consider it to be a myth. I am a little on the fence in the particular argument as I think there are pot-committed tourney scenarios. This hand, though is not really applicable.

You're 7-handed with the chip-lead of a SNG, AQs is basically AA here.

Additionally, button is bad enough to open limp 7-handed in position. We don't like to open limp because it precludes the possibility of us winning the pot pre-flop - a concept, a basic concept, that he is obviously is unaware of.

So, yes 5x sizing to his mistake from the SB is just about perfect. We could probably go 4x and achieve the same result, so if I had to say anything, I'd say maybe smaller, but as played is fine.

He calls...naturally, leaving himself 12BB's for an enormous amount of post flop maneuverability. So, we're pretty much playing for stacks here. The flop is connected, and hits both ranges, though I think the SB 3bet range hits it harder, it is hard to say with a button open limp range.

At this point, I don't care for your $800 bet, I prefer 2/3 to 3/4 here (or about 60% villains remaining stack), and of course we're stacking it if he puts it in.

Really, this is pretty standard - don't be afraid of bad players - and sometimes you lose to T8 - it happens, just be confident in the fact that it'll turn around eventually.

 

[eetenor]

Am I commited on the flop? should I just shove? I think the sizing preflop was ok and I was going to fold if BB shoved (it was the final table of a s&g, I don't know if folding would've been good). On the flop BTN can have pretty much anything but the SPR is so low that I don't know.


PokerStars - 100/200 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

Hero (SB): 10,815 (54.1 bb)
BB: 4,992 (25 bb)
UTG: 7,261 (36.3 bb)
UTG+1: 3,416 (17.1 bb)
MP: 2,699 (13.5 bb)
CO: 4,932 (24.7 bb)
BTN: 3,479 (17.4 bb)

7 players post ante of 25, Hero posts SB 100, BB posts 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 475) Hero has
4 folds, BTN calls 200, Hero raises to 1,000, fold, BTN calls 800

Flop: (2,375, 2 players)
Hero bets 800, fold

Results: 2,375 pot (0 rake)
Final Board:

Hero wins 2,375

Thank you for posting

The effective stack is 17 bb we can shove Preflop here and win V stack or get a fold. We are way ahead of V range and we do not have to figure out what to do on that kind of nasty flop

It also tells everyone on the table you will put their stack at risk


Hope this helps

 

[fundiver199]

Yes I think, you should just ship it in on the flop. Its only a pot sized bet left, and your hand is way to strong to even consider folding against someone, who can have almost any two cards. You did not make a pair obviously, but neither did he 2/3 of the time. So a lot of the time your A high is actually the best hand, even though you missed.

 

[300HPGOD]

I really like the way you played this hand. The pre flop raise is to a good amount where we are cutting down on implied odds and also telling the BB to stay out. It is also an amount to where if the BTN should come back and jam over us (not that we would with AQ suited) we do have the option of folding as we would not be committed.

I also like the flop down bet a lot. You have two overs, a backdoor and a gutter so we have equity but we have anything yet. You made a bet that did not commit you to the pot if he jammed (not saying I would fold but cant say enough about how important it is to bet size where you are not hand tieing yourself) but also makes villain act and show where he is strength wise in the hand. If you had bet to where villain would be all in with a call on the flop you are only getting action if you are beat a significant amount of the time.

In my opinion really good job on both bets where you have fold equity with both but neither is committing you and forcing you to do an action after the fact.

 

[ramignis]

with this stack, the opponent had to go all in, of course. or make such a raise that forces him to go all in about 7 BB, for example.

 

[ssbn743]

Thank you for posting

The effective stack is 17 bb we can shove Preflop here and win V stack or get a fold. We are way ahead of V range and we do not have to figure out what to do on that kind of nasty flop

It also tells everyone on the table you will put their stack at risk


Hope this helps

This isn't bad, necessarily, just remember that it also caps our value. If we had 15-20BB ourselves, I'd like this - but here, we have the chip lead - shipping to win 3.5BB's, while still +EV, will impact our overall profitability.

 

[eetenor]

This isn't bad, necessarily, just remember that it also caps our value. If we had 15-20BB ourselves, I'd like this - but here, we have the chip lead - shipping to win 3.5BB's, while still +EV, will impact our overall profitability.

Thank you for posting

Meta game plays here as well as math. Obviously this V is weak loose range vs range we are ahead but not crushing it and do we want to stack off on most flops no. Sometimes the best stack protection play is the all-in move pre.
We are in an ICM spot here already with our stack size and we have a good but not great hand but we are OOP. Yes it is still early but raise losing this hand puts us back in the pack anyway why not force the decision here?

This was a BTN limp not a min raise so the meta game dynamics play differently. V is unlikely to be holding an Ace so we are not dominating their hand. They may have paint but that is fine for us. What is not fine is this board that smashes a weak loose calling station range. As well as other boards that do the same such as 765 xxxhearts xxxspades xxxclubs etc Etc.

Your point is good and in 90% or more of situations the best approach. We can however deviate and when we do it would be for the reasons I outlined above.

Thanks again for sharing your valuable piece of advice with us all.

 

[jordanbillie]

Am I commited on the flop? should I just shove? I think the sizing preflop was ok and I was going to fold if BB shoved (it was the final table of a s&g, I don't know if folding would've been good). On the flop BTN can have pretty much anything but the SPR is so low that I don't know.


PokerStars - 100/200 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

Hero (SB): 10,815 (54.1 bb)
BB: 4,992 (25 bb)
UTG: 7,261 (36.3 bb)
UTG+1: 3,416 (17.1 bb)
MP: 2,699 (13.5 bb)
CO: 4,932 (24.7 bb)
BTN: 3,479 (17.4 bb)

7 players post ante of 25, Hero posts SB 100, BB posts 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 475) Hero has
4 folds, BTN calls 200, Hero raises to 1,000, fold, BTN calls 800

Flop: (2,375, 2 players)
Hero bets 800, fold

Results: 2,375 pot (0 rake)
Final Board:

Hero wins 2,375

Am I missing something?

This seems like a very ordinary hand.

Forgive me, but this appears to be a hand where nothing happened.

 

[ssbn743]

Thank you for posting

Meta game plays here as well as math. Obviously this V is weak loose range vs range we are ahead but not crushing it and do we want to stack off on most flops no. Sometimes the best stack protection play is the all-in move pre.
We are in an ICM spot here already with our stack size and we have a good but not great hand but we are OOP. Yes it is still early but raise losing this hand puts us back in the pack anyway why not force the decision here?

This was a BTN limp not a min raise so the meta game dynamics play differently. V is unlikely to be holding an Ace so we are not dominating their hand. They may have paint but that is fine for us. What is not fine is this board that smashes a weak loose calling station range. As well as other boards that do the same such as 765 xxxhearts xxxspades xxxclubs etc Etc.

Your point is good and in 90% or more of situations the best approach. We can however deviate and when we do it would be for the reasons I outlined above.

Thanks again for sharing your valuable piece of advice with us all.

Ok, I'm good with this - I just think we can probably make more money by not shipping, but anyone's guess with a 15BB BTN open limper.