[$22 rebuy] Resteal all-in J2o

Irexes

Irexes

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Thoughts? In the money, 50 left of 639.

poker stars, $22 Buy-in (2,000/4,000 blinds, 400 ante) NL Hold'em Tourney, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

UTG+1: 45,630 (11.4 bb)
MP1: 47,841 (12 bb)
MP2: 107,418 (26.9 bb)
MP3: 65,594 (16.4 bb)
CO: 96,446 (24.1 bb)
Hero (BTN): 61,837 (15.5 bb)
SB: 131,088 (32.8 bb)
BB: 102,292 (25.6 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with 6
spade.gif
8
heart.gif

6 folds, SB raises to 10,000, BB raises to 101,892 and is all-in, SB calls 91,892

Flop: (206,984) Q
club.gif
T
heart.gif
6
club.gif
(2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: (206,984) 3
diamond.gif
(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: (206,984) K
spade.gif
(2 players, 1 is all-in)
Results: 206,984 pot
SB showed A
spade.gif
A
diamond.gif
(a pair of Aces) and won 206,984 (104,692 net)
BB showed 2
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J
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(high card King) and lost (-102,292 net)
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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blind v. blind this is just a standard cooler. guy had a face card and the wrap around straight draw (JQKA2), just ran into a better hand
 
blankoblanco

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but i don't think i get the point of this thread. if it's meant to mock him, well there are actually situations where you can resteal any two because the disparity between your opponent's raising range and 3bet-calling range is so huge, aka they're exploitable. if it's not a joke, well again, we have no idea what the situation was, no reads or anything. it was probably spew but who knows just looking at a HH

without reads there's nothing you can really say about it either way (not even that it's invariably bad)
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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could be, doesnt hafta be
 
Irexes

Irexes

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there are actually situations where you can resteal any two because the disparity between your opponent's raising range and 3bet calling range is so huge, aka they're exploitable.

^this really.

Guy doing the shoving is 52nd on OPR and a massive winner. Entirely context dependant of course, but I thought it just demonstrated that in order to build (and maintain a big stack and get repeated wins) it takes a huge set of cojones and the willingness to push any edge.

In this situation the SB was a weak player who was raising anything pretty much in position. Just bad timing :)
 
BelgoSuisse

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I thought it just demonstrated that in order to build (and maintain a big stack and get repeated wins) it takes a huge set of cojones

[x] OP - a major winner himself - subtly implies that he too has a big set. :eek:
 
blankoblanco

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i wonder how long it would have taken someone to defend his play if i didn't :)
 
Dwilius

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In this situation the SB was a weak player who was raising anything pretty much in position. Just bad timing :)

But he wasn't in position. I can understand the resteal if it was a button raise, but was he likely to be raising that wide from the sb that the shove was profitable overall?
 
blankoblanco

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shrug, i think there are a lot of people who will open the SB really wide but are pretty selective with what they call 3bets with. even though they're out of position, they know they don't really want to open-limp, and they think "hey i only have one person to beat to win the blinds" so they do it. long time ago i used to open the SB almost every time it folded to me, but realized that was exploitable and toned it down a lot
 
Irexes

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Yup, not saying he had postion here, but that he was raising in position a lot and that was indicative of a wide range in this spot.
 
Dwilius

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...they think "hey i only have one person to beat to win the blinds" so they do it.

Ok, yeah. I guess that's what Rex meant, with less people left to act he was going after it no matter.
 
Jillychemung

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I wonder what the SB's usual raise was, always 2.5xBB, varied or ??
 
silverslugger33

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It's just a bad read. SB easily could have been trying to steal. BB probably should have raised less though. If they raise to about 40K, then they can still fold when the SB goes over the top, and if the SB was just trying to steal, they'll fold to the 40K anyway. Bad read + bad luck = bye bye from tournament.
 
blankoblanco

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40k/fold is not very pretty though. at that point he'd be getting like 2.5:1 and have proper odds to call vs. AK/AQ and any pocket pair up to tens. you can make a stronger case for 30k/fold maybe

as it is, 25 BBs is a pretty standardish stack for restealing all-in at the medium and higher buy-ins. he also had the possible psychological advantage of being able to make it over 100k. of course none of that works when you run into AA

and jilly, that's a good point. if 2.5x was his standard raise then so be it. however if it's the first time he's made it that amount, or he's only done it very few times, that would make me suspicious enough to basically never try a resteal until i get a better idea of what he's doing that with. that's why when a player varies their raise sizes, it's great to make notes on what they had when they show down each time
 
Dwilius

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RofL, cAPs :D
 
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Dwilius

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...so I was thinking about the numbers here, what do you guys think a typical B v B allin calling range would be 25bb deep? Obviously its going to depend on how often the other player resteals, but let's say he's capable of restealing but doesn't go overboard with it. I was thinking like 77+, AT+,QK is that too narrow? That's ~10% hands and J2 would have about 25% equity against that range, so if sb is only raising 30% of the time in this situation a shove with J2 is pretty bad, but if he's raising 50%+, but only calling with that top 10% it would be clearly profitable.

btw, that's just an estimated equity. Was thinking about how you could do it while playing without a program (probably not practical though :rolleyes:). You can take known numbers; pairs are ~.5% (1/221) each, other hands ~1.2% (2/169) and 70/30, 50/50 etc. situations...so J2 vs the bottom 4 pairs were 4(.5) 27% to win, top 4(.5) ~10%, 5 others 5(1.2) ~30%. Added up divided by the total ten was ~25%, so without getting into chops that means J2 is losing on avg. ~half 100k stack every time its called and winning 14k every time it gets a fold. With extra money in pot it becomes a break even play when its getting ~3+ folds for every call (with that calling range)
 
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dj11

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My stupid opinion;

caPslock is like the rest of us, merely human.:eek:

Since BB made this happen PF, he deserves some kudo's for the attempt, but - Kudos for the choice of timing. Under all circumstances where SB has less than a premium hand, he will most likely fold to a resteal. So A rag there will probably not confront, where as AQ might. TT and above very likely calls, but that might be read dependant.

BB rolled the dice and lost. EOS
 
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J

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He thought SB was bluffing and tried to over bet..he thought he probably had J8 or was trying to steal the blinds.. He had no idea with such a small raise that SB was sitting on AA.. Obviously he got excited and SB obviously was going to call..
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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if SB and BB had like half the stacks that they have then i'd like it, as it is restealing here just seems wtfspewy. BB has position on the big stack and two shorties to his left, there doesn't seem to be any real need for him to throw 25BBs at this.

i guess it is largely read dependent, we can probably make the shove profitable by saying SB is raising any two and only calling the shove with top 10% or less, but without being given this info it seems spewtacular.
 
blankoblanco

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with half the stacks there would be very close to no fold equity as SB would be getting about 2:1. also, it would make the play less desirable because SB's range for opening for 1/5th of effective stacks is so much stronger

again ~25 BBs is actually considered a pretty ideal stack for re-stealing with antes
 
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