$22 NLHE MTT: Nuts vs Second nuts

What would u do at the river

  • shove

    Votes: 7 77.8%
  • check

    Votes: 2 22.2%

  • Total voters
    9
peaceofcoke

peaceofcoke

Visionary
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Total posts
697
Awards
3
Hi everyone. Someone will have a very bad beat today I am sure.
Well, UTG opens x2 everyone folds, Im at BB with K6o, I decided to defend.
Flop comes Kc2sQh I check, he bets 1/4pot, I call.
Turn Kd I check, he goes about 90% of the pot, I call even if I am concerned of a KQ/KJ/KA/QQ, but since only one K is left I decided to call and shove the river.
River card, Kh, I have the absolute nuts. he has 2.3BB left, I knew it is a mistake to check, but I did anyways, He shoves. I call.
He had AA. I collect his bounty and feel sorry for slowrolling him.
 

Attachments

  • slowroll.jpg
    slowroll.jpg
    20.5 KB · Views: 39
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,272
Awards
1
Especially in a bounty it was definitely a mistake to rely on him putting in the last 2,3BB himself. Even on a blank river card its a disaster, if it goes check-check, and then you win the pot, but you dont get his bounty. And with so little left behind I would just have check-jammed the turn. If he has a draw and brick, he is not going to pay on the river either by calling or by putting it in himself. He is also never going to check behind with a hand better than yours. So by not getting it in on the turn you are letting him off the hock and potentially missing his bounty, when you are ahead, and still dubbling him up when you are behind. Its not a slowroll though, unless you took needlessly long to call his river jam :)
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Total posts
1,324
^ ^ ^ ^ this in a nutshell. We can't afford to have our villan check back and just seems he's never going to fold a hand as strong as AA on this runout - he should've gotten all his money in on the turn. Anyhow, aside from the river check, you played it fine and as you should have. Raising flop polarizes our villan and I think at that point he jams his JTs combos, folds out ALOT of his Qx value hands, and only calls us with better Kx and AA - so it becomes a bad situation if we were to do so. The turn gives our villan ALOT less Kx in their range considering there's only 1 K left in the deck leaving only 4 combos of AK, 3 combos of KQ, 1 combo of KTs, and only 4 combos of KJ, throw in 3 combos of QQ - thats 15 total combos of nut hands left we lose to, and that many is simply not enough to make me fear my villan has one and I am NEVER folding turn, bounty or no bounty - we are ahead here waaaay too often to fold.
 
K

kkonicke

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Total posts
416
I think you played the hand very well. As noted above, once he pot commits himself on the turn you have to make an allin or fold decision based on the bounty, just absolutely no sense in potentially not having a shot at the bounty if you decide to play the hand.

Hands that make sense for him to have here include AA, QQ, AK, KQ, KJ, JTs, plus a number of spewy bluffs. I for sure would check KQ/QQ after that turn and hope for A/J/T river and that you might make a straight. I think I'm better smaller with all Kx to try and keep Qx in the pot(maybe 2/5 of my remaining stack). Based on his big bet on the turn, AA or JT or a spewy bluff actually make the most sense. I'm for sure taking the spot.
 
S

Sidetracked

Legend
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Total posts
1,294
Awards
2
K6o is a terrible hand to call an UTG raise. At that point, you're not really 'defending' your BB, more just spewing chips. It could be considered 'defending' if the open was from the button or small blind.

And you really need to shove the river.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,272
Awards
1
Just for the record I would also prefer a fold preflop :)
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,272
Awards
1
The turn gives our villan ALOT less Kx in their range considering there's only 1 K left in the deck leaving only 4 combos of AK, 3 combos of KQ, 1 combo of KTs, and only 4 combos of KJ, throw in 3 combos of QQ - thats 15 total combos of nut hands left we lose to, and that many is simply not enough to make me fear my villan has one and I am NEVER folding turn, bounty or no bounty - we are ahead here waaaay too often to fold.

Also the turn gives us equity when behind. If we are against QQ, we were drawing almost dead on the flop, but now we can win on a K, 6 or 2, so we have 7 outs. If we are against KJ, we can still win on a 6, but we can also chop on a A, Q or 2, which give us 10 outs to chop. I think, its very questionable to call an UTG open with K6 offsuit, but once we did and hit this board, we have to go with our hand. And as already stated go after that bounty.
 
jaworek1405

jaworek1405

Legend
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Total posts
1,003
Awards
8
Hello, I agree in the large part with guys. I also think that hand k6o is to weak to defend big blind against raise from UTG. Better hand to defend big blind is k6s, we can defend with k6s even against raise from UTG. Hand k6s has a little bigger potential. Opponent raise stronger Kx from UTG than k6o and we can have some problem with k6o if we hit top pair. As played - I think that we can call two streets, the flop and the turn with top pair. This time the turn and the river card were very good card for us and normally we can't fold three of a kind. GL :)
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Total posts
1,324
Even against an UTG open i don't think I am folding K6o for a min raise. We can defend suuuuper wide, almost our entire range here, plus having the K blocks the top of our villans range annnd the 6 can help us negate the wheel from Ax. Certainly would never consider a 3b from this situation, but I'm probably calling close to 100% of the time. The other upside to this is when we have skill edge, we can outplay our villans post flop as well. I think folding here for this PFR sizing is losing us money long term.
 
F

fifille07

Visionary
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Total posts
623
Awards
7
Shove. You don't know how good is his hand.
 
peaceofcoke

peaceofcoke

Visionary
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Total posts
697
Awards
3
Shove. You don't know how good is his hand.

And you really need to shove the river.

And as already stated go after that bounty.
Well, I wanted him to hand me his bounty himself, it is like bluffing someone with the worst hand, but here I knew he has a freaking fullhouse QQ/ AA, so he is never going to check the river, and sadly it gave me such a thrill seeing him going all in while I am 100% sure Im gonna get that booty. I even used a bit of my time bank just to get him hanging on that little rope of hope. An a-hole I know, but we ve been going too and fro for a long time that I just wanted to show him who's boss and to send a statement to the table, if I check it doesnt mean I am weak, if I raise you must be concerned, and dont try to bluff me.
 
F

fifille07

Visionary
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Total posts
623
Awards
7
Well, I wanted him to hand me his bounty himself, it is like bluffing someone with the worst hand, but here I knew he has a freaking fullhouse QQ/ AA, so he is never going to check the river, and sadly it gave me such a thrill seeing him going all in while I am 100% sure Im gonna get that booty. I even used a bit of my time bank just to get him hanging on that little rope of hope. An a-hole I know, but we ve been going too and fro for a long time that I just wanted to show him who's boss and to send a statement to the table, if I check it doesnt mean I am weak, if I raise you must be concerned, and dont try to bluff me.


I'm always afraid of quads so don't be 100% certain he will not check the river in my opinion.
 
marianexbj

marianexbj

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 3, 2020
Total posts
132
Already on the turn, I think you should put him all in and avoid missing the bounty, because if he has 2.3bb behind there is no way you can fold the river.
 
Top